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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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action help

Hi there,
Not matter how much I adjust the bridge, I cannot achieve the action that I have in my JEM on my RG. JEM has Lo Pro and RG has Edge Pro.
When I lower the bridge, high E string touches frets on upper frets. When high E string free from upper frets, I dont like the action. Is there any other way I can use to get low action aside from lowering the bridge. thanks
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 08:05 PM
RGM
 
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Re: action help

Got a 50cm straight edge? Almost sounds like you need to loosen your truss rod.

Depress the low E on the first fret and 14th fret and check the clearance at the 6th. There needs to be a very very slight gap between the string and crown of the fret.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: action help

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGM View Post
Got a 50cm straight edge? Almost sounds like you need to loosen your truss rod.

Depress the low E on the first fret and 14th fret and check the clearance at the 6th. There needs to be a very very slight gap between the string and crown of the fret.
No, I dont have that. Truss rod adjustment, thats something that I want to avoid

yes, there is very very hair thin gap between the string and crown.

whats next? thanks
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 08:50 PM
 
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Re: action help

sounds like you need a neck angle mod. I did this mod to my UVGR a few weeks ago (after realizing that this was the last step I didn't do when I originally had it setup >5 years ago). Now the guitar feels like an Ibanez UV7 should.
There's a little formula i "learned" from this mod but it *IS* necessary to adjust the truss rod or else you won't get a straight neck. .

Check this site's setup section to get the swing of it. The formula I understood for my setup is simple:

if the bridge is very low but the action isn't, add 1 or 2 neck pocket shims towards the body side + tighten truss rod 1/4 - 1/2 turn (I have 2 on the GR and truss rod is almost tight). If the bridge IS low but the action is still high (which is i hope your case), the neck shims [if there are any] might need to be removed.

the technique here is not to have the bridge to be extremely low that you can't do pull-ups nor too high that the action becomes unbearable to play. Have the bridge height close to "factory settings" and THEN adjust the trussrod. Lower/Raise the bridge until you find that "ideal" action. I have mine really low and no buzz.... makes your fingers fly

Reg
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 08:57 PM
 
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Re: action help

Would a neck angle adjustment be necessary? I've always understood that neck shims were only necessary when you can't physically get the action lower enough (as in, the trem studs bottom out before the action is low enough, or you can't get enough pullup).

I think the OP can get his trem as low as it needs to go, it's just a matter of it hitting the frets in certain undesirable spots.

Sounds like you need a truss adjustment. It's nothing to be afraid of, just don't go in there twisting and turning like a madman. Remember to always loosen the neck first, even if you need to make it tighter.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: action help

thanks you all for your replies. Just to let you know, the gap between high E string and crown is about 2mm at 12 fret. My JEM is about 1mm at 12 and not buzz at all.

Any instruction about adjusting trust rod? I suppose I need to remove all strings to adjust trust rod, No?
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 09:34 PM
 
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Re: action help

Trying to get 1mm action on all your guitars is a somewhat futile attempt. 1mm is VERY low, and unless you have impeccable fretwork, it's going to be hard. I'd shoot for around 1.5mm at the 12th though.

When adjusting the truss, if you are looking from the headstock down to the body, turn it clockwise to tighter and counterclockwise to loosen. Turn it in very small increments.

You don't necessarily have to remove the strings, but use your tremolo and clamp it to the body to slacken them.

Also, action height go hand in hand, so when you make a truss adjustment, you're also probably going to need to adjust the bridge a little.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 09:50 PM
 
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Re: action help

Quote:
Originally Posted by waylay00 View Post
Trying to get 1mm action on all your guitars is a somewhat futile attempt. 1mm is VERY low, and unless you have impeccable fretwork, it's going to be hard. I'd shoot for around 1.5mm at the 12th though.

When adjusting the truss, if you are looking from the headstock down to the body, turn it clockwise to tighter and counterclockwise to loosen. Turn it in very small increments.

You don't necessarily have to remove the strings, but use your tremolo and clamp it to the body to slacken them.

Also, action height go hand in hand, so when you make a truss adjustment, you're also probably going to need to adjust the bridge a little.
You are actually better off adjusting the truss rod with the guitar tuned up to playing tension in any case - remember, the truss rod counteracts the pull of the strings, so adjusting it with the strings loose is a frustrating guessing game.

In all honesty, if you have any doubts about what you are doing, I'd take the guitar to a decent tech - it's not easy to damage a guitar by adjusting the truss rod, but you CAN do it, and you CAN spend hours poking around making the guitar feel worse and worse without really achieving what you want if you really don't understand the mechanics of guitar geometry.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 11:33 PM
 
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Re: action help

If you're tightening the truss rod with the strings not loose, you're facing a lot of tension that could possibly damage or strip the nut. It's not really problem when you are loosening the truss rod though.

I've seen many people strip the nut by tightening the truss rod with the strings tight, especially on the little 1/8" allen hex nuts on Fenders (including myself...had to send the neck of to John Suhr to get repaired) . It's probably not that big of a problem on the Ibanez/Gibson style truss nut, but I'd slacken the strings just to be safe. All you have to do is depress the bar (clamp it with something), tighten, unclamp, and you're back in business.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-22-2007, 01:47 AM
 
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Re: action help

Quote:
Originally Posted by waylay00 View Post
Would a neck angle adjustment be necessary? I've always understood that neck shims were only necessary when you can't physically get the action lower enough (as in, the trem studs bottom out before the action is low enough, or you can't get enough pullup).
My case was the latter... I was trying to figure out why my lo-pro was really low but the pull-up was horrible... it was almost non-existent... bear in my mind I haven't examined nor played my guitars for the past few years as school took over my time[though i've incorporated it and my playing into my projects] and wasn't concentrating on this problem beforehand. I took the bridge apart by taking each spring out. I noticed the intonation screw for the G and B saddles were "digging" through the paint underneath the bridge. So I did the neck angle adjustment and it was what the doctor recommended... since I was there, I took out the original (and really aged) paper and experimented without it there... I replaced with cardstock paper I had but used the original for "reference" size.
This solution is definitely meant for experienced people who can take out the bridge and the neck off the guitar while being comfortable about it.

Reg
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-22-2007, 03:12 AM
 
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Re: action help

Quote:
Originally Posted by xklusivly4u View Post
thanks you all for your replies. Just to let you know, the gap between high E string and crown is about 2mm at 12 fret. My JEM is about 1mm at 12 and not buzz at all.

Any instruction about adjusting trust rod? I suppose I need to remove all strings to adjust trust rod, No?

1mm is imo too low and your going to have note choking while bending and very little pull up range with your tremolo. Although you might consider this nice low action id almost guarantee its limiting your technique and making your picking sound horrid. Shooting for action around 1.5 to 2mm isnt bad at all imo, and will net you the superior tone and pullup range you want from a guitar like this.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-22-2007, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: action help

thanks.

Action in my RG is not that horrible or unplayable at all. But just that I notice the difference and feel a bit uncomfortable when switching guitars. By the way, 1mm gap in my JEM has no problem with full banding at high frets or extreme pull up. But I got string choke on higher frets when I do full bending on RG at fret 19-22 frets if I lower the bridge.

The other thing is I feel JEM frets are totally flat with D shape but in RG if feel like C shape and need to press a bit further, could be action is a bit high.

So should I leave it like that and change my technique or make some adjustment?

Thanks
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-22-2007, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: action help

sorry, correction, JEM is 1.5 mm, not 1mm.
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Tags
high frets , john suhr , neck angle , neck shim , rod adjustment , straight neck , trem studs , truss rod , truss rod adjustment , upper fret , upper frets

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