Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune - Jemsite
Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods Guitar workbench discussion such as setup, repairs, mods, installing new parts and more.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-22-2013, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: arizona
Posts: 33
Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

ok, so I have had experiences with a lo trs trem and a edge pro 2 trem and honestly i hate them both. I like to use my trem arm for vibrato and the occasional dive bomb here and there but i swear I cant make it through a song without needing to tune up if i use the arm. So i end up avoiding the arm which defeats the purpose of having a floating bridge. One guitar is an ibanez jem 555 and another is a high end ibanez prestige. I have had my guitars set up and intonized and the whole nine yards and no matter what I do these suckers cant handle any arm use without going out of tune. Please help, I have been looking at the gotoh trems and they seem nice but i don't want to swap out my trem if I"m going to have the same result. JEMSITE friends, please give me advice.
vaidream45 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-22-2013, 08:16 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,511
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaidream45 View Post
ok, so I have had experiences with a lo trs trem and a edge pro 2 trem and honestly i hate them both. I like to use my trem arm for vibrato and the occasional dive bomb here and there but i swear I cant make it through a song without needing to tune up if i use the arm. So i end up avoiding the arm which defeats the purpose of having a floating bridge. One guitar is an ibanez jem 555 and another is a high end ibanez prestige. I have had my guitars set up and intonized and the whole nine yards and no matter what I do these suckers cant handle any arm use without going out of tune. Please help, I have been looking at the gotoh trems and they seem nice but i don't want to swap out my trem if I"m going to have the same result. JEMSITE friends, please give me advice.
Today I saw a guy complaining about his Ibanez with locking tuners for the simple reason that it took too long to tune to an alternate tuning and back again during rehearsal. He has one guitar.

However, as for tuning stability, the Edge pretty much stayed in tune for a week at a time and this with relatively heavy playing. I have also experienced a pretty good experience with Original Floyd, Kahler, Kahler knock off, Kahler Spyder, and the Washburn Wonderbar.

I am convinced it's not the trem, as most makes stay in tune very well, but the setup. Simply take it to another tech until it's done correctly.

If you doubt the physics of virtually any locking tuner tremolo system, then spend some time gigging, practicing, and recording and then seeing how a fixed bridge guitar holds up. In a typical set of 45 minutes, I would have to tune my guitar (Fender Telecaster or Gibson Les Paul) at least three times as a lead guitarist and probably about twice in roles as rhythm guitarist and singer. Now in live cases in one 45 minute set with the least stable of locking tuners in my arsenal, the Charvel Model 3 with Kahler Spyder with locking nut behind the nut as was the case with most '80s Kahlers, I would maybe have to fiddle with 2nd or 3rd string once or so.

There's no argument whether a locking trem is more stable than fixed bridge or non locking Fender or Bigsby. But that being said, no guitar stays in tune 100 percent, even for just a 45 minute set. We deal with close enough with a guitar while playing or recording, close enough for vocals when singing, and close enough with tempo with drummer. If a guitar, singer, and drummer were perfect, it would be lifeless and sound like a computer program, no matter what instruments you used.

PM me for questions.

Last edited by 63Blazer; 03-22-2013 at 08:31 PM.
63Blazer is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-23-2013, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: arizona
Posts: 33
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

i appreciate all of what you have said. do you use your whammy bar a lot when u play live? i can play for hrs without needing to tune up these guitars if I don't use the whammy bar. but one dive bomb and i'm out.
vaidream45 is offline  
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-23-2013, 05:52 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 675
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

What you're experiencing can happen to an Gotoh or Floyd just as easy. Setting up a guitar doesn't mean that the trem is "set up" per se. There are several things you can do to ensure your Ibanez trem stays in tune.

1. Check your locking nut - did you lube your string grooves? graphite, carmex, berts bees...they both work.

2. string saddles - same thing as #1. It's a point where your string touches the bridge, it needs some sort of lube in order that it not potentially "bind" up.

3. pivot points of the trem - knife edges - lube those as well.

4. Is your Ibanez trem at it's correct "floating angle"? - I can't tell you how many times I've seen Ibanez guitars come back from "set ups" where the person setting the guitar up is not familiar with the Ibanez edge, or lo-pro trem. The baseplate of the trem should not be level with the body of the guitar. It should be angled slightly. It should only be level in the case of having an "edge pro" trem. (See Rich Harris "Ibanez Rules" set up guide") Everything you need to know right there.

try these things mentioned, and also check your knife edges to make sure they are...well, still knife edges....
TMatt142 is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-23-2013, 07:11 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seattle ,Washington USA
Posts: 433
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

There are a lot of variables affecting the function of these double locking trems and returning to pitch depends on several things being just right. IMO you need the basic hardware, the bridge and nut, to be the best quality possible and installed correctly,no lose nut or stud inserts for example. From there the set up is critical. Like mentioned Ibanez Rules set up guide is the best I have seen by far. Honestly I can't imagine being serious about playing a guitar with a double locking trem and not learning function and set up of it. If you are having problems when these two things are covered you have to look for subtle flaws that can be difficult to detect. A ridge in the stud where the knife edges contact for example. On Original Floyd Rose if the studs aren't spaced perfectly they will cause problems because of both knife edges being curved thus needing to center on perfectly spaced studs is another example. Finding problems like these can be frustrating, you just have to be persistent and eventually you will find the problem. One thing that I think helps is Gotoh high tension springs for better return to pitch. They make the trem feel a little stiffer but to me that is an easy trade off for better pitch return. The way I look at it is a floating trem will never be as stable as a fixed bridge so if you want the features a trem gives you ,you will have to accept some imperfections in tuning stability. It's just a matter of degree.
moonlight is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-23-2013, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: arizona
Posts: 33
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

thanks you guys. you gave me so much valuable info. I wish I got on this forum years ago.
vaidream45 is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-24-2013, 08:56 AM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,768
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

I can pretty much abuse the hell out of any Edge trem and it always returns to tune, always assuming:

1. The nut it not loose

2. The stud to knife edge area is properly lubed (I use a graphite lube intended for nuts)

3. The knife edges don't have any damage

4. I have a good set of studs in the guitar

#4 hasn't been mentioned but is the most critical. You can have the first three right on and the guitar won't stay in tune. Someone once sold me a guitar because it wouldn't stay in tune. It was just the studs.

The studs on your Edge Pro 2 won't be locking studs, which is a big problem for stability. You'll want to get the "super stud" upgrade from Ibanez Rules. The other problem you can have, even if you have locking studs, is that they can be worn or they can be one of the bad designs Ibanez used for several years. Rich covers these designs in detail on his site.
Takin' a Ride is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-24-2013, 01:23 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 531
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
The studs on your Edge Pro 2 won't be locking studs, which is a big problem for stability. You'll want to get the "super stud" upgrade from Ibanez Rules. The other problem you can have, even if you have locking studs, is that they can be worn or they can be one of the bad designs Ibanez used for several years. Rich covers these designs in detail on his site.
As far as I know, Edge Pro and Edge Pro II don't use the same stud anchors though. Edge Pro II has the fine threaded and thinner studs requiring the stud anchors to be replaced as well. I remember reading the stud anchor diameters to be different as well, but I can't find that one now.
kissTheApex is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 04:10 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Seymour, IN
Posts: 319
Reviews: 7
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

Man, I must be lucky, but I've just recently setup my Ibanez S with Low Pro Edge and after reading Rich's site/ Ibanez rules made sure everything was the way it should be, and I can yank some strings and can use the bar and raise or lower pitch, dive and pull up and it stays in tune great. Right back to where it was. I mean on my digital amp tuner it's right on. It seems after it sits maybe awhile with certain strings it will be off just a tad flat, but I assume this is because of the strings stretching. But, I played it the other day for I bet 3 hours and really yanked on it and it was great. Maybe had one string I felt was flat a little if that.. I don't remember tuning it at all. I'm using Ernie Ball strings too which have worked for me best.. Good luck..
HoosierDaddy is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 05:25 PM
 
jb4674's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA - USA
Posts: 4,613
Reviews: 18
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you have to ensure that your strings are properly stretched. A guitar that hasn't had its strings stretched can experience tuning problems like the ones you're describing.

Jimmy
jb4674 is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 06:04 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 9,238
Reviews: 120
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

You said you had a high end Prestige. That doesn't have an Edge Pro 2. It's an Edge Pro, a much better bridge.

Check out the link at the top of all pages for Ibanez Rules. Click on that and go to the tech section. Following the tutorials should give you a properly set up bridge that will hold tune for ages.
LonePhantom is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 06:39 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Almere, Netherlands
Posts: 42
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

If you have done all the above things and still find it's going slightly out of tune the following thing might also help: change your strings for an equal tension string set, e.g. D'addario EXL111 's.

A standard 9-42 string set has stronger tension to the A and D strings, while the lower E and higher E are more loose. As a result, the G string, which usually has the a very similar intonation distance as the low E but stronger tension will get out of tune most if you divebomb. The G string is also the first one you very much notice when it's out of tune (playing open C chord or A en E major etc).

The EXL111's (or similar) will have the advantage of equal tension on al strings (which will keep the G more in tune). A slightly stronger tension than the standard 9-42 set, which in the end results in a somewhat stronger string tension which might resolve the going out of tune. And also, once used to it plays much better and has better clean sound (IMHO results may vary on playing style).

Disadvantages: you need to squeeze harder on the strings. You need to again redo your guitar setup (and straight clean & lube and do all).
Jouke74 is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: independence MO
Posts: 251
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

After a nice few good divebombs or so I have to pull up or back ( the opposite of a divebomb, a divebomb in reverse I guess you would call it) and that always seems to put me back in tune so that my tuning isnt flat any more. Thats always worked for me at least...... thats using the edge 3 on my rg350mdx. Try that route if you have not already and see if it helps.
nathan80 is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 03:22 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Almere, Netherlands
Posts: 42
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

Yup same here, to avoid this I also tend to slighty "wiggle" the tremolo at the of the bomb let's call the "impact"
Jouke74 is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-26-2013, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: arizona
Posts: 33
Re: Best floyd rose trem for staying in tune

after dealing with all this for so long i finally caved in and went with the edge zero trem. best decision of my life. I can't make this thing fall out of tuning even when i'm trying. I appreciate all of the info and feedback you all gave me and I put in countless hrs trying all of it. then i went to guitar center and tried an rg prestige with edge zero 2 trem and it changed my whole world. those of you who haven't tried it, I highly suggest it. btw, i also used an edge 3 trem for a while an i did do that trick where after a dive i had to pull up on the bar to balance, the g string would still stay flat slightly though. guitar wasn't meant to take that much work all the time to stay in tune. try to edge zero at ur local guitar shop guys and gals, plug it into an amp with built in tuner and i dare you to try to put it out of tune. I'd like to hear how ur experiences go with this. have fun!
vaidream45 is offline  
Reply

Tags
edge pro 2 , jem , lo trs , trem , tremolo

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jemsite forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address

IMPORTANT: You will be required to activate your account so please ensure that your email address is correct.

If you do not receive your activation check your spam folder before using the CONTACT US form (at the bottom right of each page).



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Floyd Rose without a locking nut...will it stay in tune?! Smitty All Other Guitars (including Prestige) 16 04-10-2007 12:00 AM
staying in tune after trem use rich2k4 Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods 24 05-19-2006 01:43 AM
Can't... Tune... Floyd... Rose... Kid Vicious Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods 7 02-10-2005 02:28 PM
Floyd rose going out of tune when I snap a string Anton All Other Guitars (including Prestige) 8 06-25-2003 07:37 PM
Not staying in tune - and now I know why!!!! littlegreenman Ibanez JEM, UV, JS & Other Signature Models 7 10-15-2001 11:40 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome