Changing Vine inlay colors - things that make you go hmmmmmm - Jemsite
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-06-2001, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors - things that make you go hmmmmmm

How much trouble is it to pull the fretboard off the neck? *Or maybe it's not that hard, so rathar.......how difficult would it be to change the vine inlay colors? *Is there just a piece of green posterboard under the clear plastic? *I doubt it, but ya never know.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-07-2001, 12:07 AM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

e-mail Kev on this one he's done it a couple of times from what I've heard......

Pulling the Fret board off that is......
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-07-2001, 01:34 AM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

I must be blur... but why would you want to remove the fretboard from the neck? Why not send the whole neck for inlay work?
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-07-2001, 03:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

Because it's cheaper.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 04:12 AM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

Cheaper than what? *Man, taking a fretboard off is a major pain in the @ss. *The things got to be refretted anyway if you change the inlay (or should be), and there is certainly no need to remove the fretboard to do that. *Anyone doing inlays is (or should) be set up with some type of neck jig to comfortably hold the entire neck while doing the inlay. *The luthiers I know don't do the inlay until the fretboard is on and shaped on a brand new untouched neck. *
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't think it's worth pulling the whole fretboard for an inlay.
Just my $.02 Canadian (so really, less than $.01 US)
Jeremy
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 07:05 AM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

I certainly feel that this type of work should be left to the pros. Even better why not just get a new neck and save the one from accidents.

Just my 2 cents.

Chris.
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-08-2001, 01:18 PM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

I've done a few fretboard swaps in my day. *Let's start with some myth crushing....

Myth: *"Taking a fretboard off is a major pain in the azz".
Crush: *No- cutting out a carved top body is a pain in the azz. *Removing a fretboard is quite easy. *Not as easy as turning a volume knob, but still fairly easy.

Myth: *"Inlays are cut after the fretboard is on the neck".
Crush: *Inlays are cut both before AND after the board is attached to the neck. *It's really a matter of who's doing the inlay. *Ron Thorn (Thorn Inlay; does a lot of Brian Moore Customs stuff) doesn't usually remove the board to do the inlay. *Hoshino (makers of the JEM, UV and other high-quality guitars) drills the dot inlays PRIOR to the board being attached to the neck. * There is no right or wrong way here. *Both ways work just fine.

Myth: *"All the frets need to be removed before you take the fretboard off the neck."
Crush: *Nope. *It's actually better to leave the frets in! *Why? *If you don't leave them in there, the rosewood/maple/ebony will curl up like an armadillo. *The tang of the frets keeps the board from going nutty.

Myth: *"JEM fretboards (pyramid/vine/etc.) can't be used on an S-series neck."
Crust: *Yes, they can. *There are a few minor mods that need to be done, but it can happen. *

I'll take some pics soon and show a little of the project I have going here. *Anyone looking for a 22-fret, dot-inlayed, JEM-profile neck? *:-)
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 01:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

Well gee Kevan, thanks for clearing that up.

Looks like those myths really needed to be cleared up.

It was a simple question of, how hard is it?
I appreciate everybodies concern for my neck, but all I needed to hear, was a "Very hard" or "not really too bad"
Myth: *I can afford to send my guitars off and have all this custom work done to them.
Crush: *I cant
I trust my workmanship. *If the project turned out to be relatively simple, I would pursue it further. *If not, end of thought.

So tell me Kevan, since you seem to have the only firm grip on the process so far, what else does Hoshino do to get the vine inlays. *Is it colored plastic on the bottom and a clear piece placed on top, or is it a clear resin poured on top to ensure a nice tight fit?
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 02:58 AM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

Tom- you're very welcome.

It is a project you can do if you're famaliar with wood, glue and plastic and how steam/heat interacts with them. *I do NOT have a full wood shop here (contrary to Rachel's thoughts that the kitchen is actually my shop...LOL), but I make due with the tools and facilities I have. *The results are, so far, great.

Prep:
•Remove ALL hardware except for the nut. *Locking nuts can be removed, but I like to leave standard nuts on so I don't have to re-measure when I attach the new board on. *Lazy? *Maybe. Smart? * Yup. *:-)
•Leave the frets in. *Your board will curl if you take them out. *You can do fretwork once the board is on it's new neck.

Tools I use:
1. *Regular household iron. *It must have the "steam" option. *It'll save you some time if it has the "steam full on" button.
2. 2.5" or 3" putty knife/paint scraper. *Use your Dremel to make that edge sharper than Dennis Miller taking apart GWBush. *:-) *Possible subsitute: *Steak knife. *NOT the one with the serrated edge; make sure the edge is straight and sharp. *I still use this one on occasion. *It's pretty damn sturdy. *
3. *Razor blade. *Preferably the rectangular kind, but it doesn't really matter as long as it's SHARP.
4. *T-shirts. *You'll need at least 3. *Make sure they're either old, or not yours.
5. *Ball-peen hammer. *Doesn't have to be a 12lb. sledge...just something small you can use force with.
6. *Extra bucket of patience. *This is the most important thing you can bring with you.

NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER NEVER start at the nut-end of the fretboard. *This is far too visible to the public and usually contains wood you'll need later on. *Don't start here. *Go to the other end.

Start at the very butt-end of the neck. *Look for the joint where the fretboard meets the neck. *Put the razor and hammer away; we won't be touching them for a LONG time.

Get the iron. *Set it on "WOOL" if it has such a setting. *The middle of the "steam" settings is fine...maybe a touch hotter. *Let the iron warm up. *Now, with rosewood/ebony/darker woods, I set the iron on the fretboard bare (no shirt). *On maple/lighter wood boards, I like to slide the neck into the t-shirt, as if it's wearing it (i.e. only one layer of cloth). *There is no flame that touches the wood, but I like to be careful. *You can put the t-shirt on any board. *It's just a personal preferance. *Put the other shirts under the neck to support it's head and to keep it from getting dinged.

Set the iron on the end of the neck...right on top of the frets (hot side down for all you Harmony Central writers). *Make sure the steam is going. *Leave the iron there for about 5 minutes, or until the steam runs out on the iron. *NEVER EVER EVER NEVER let it out of your sight!!!!! *Keep a watchful eye on the neck and the iron. *When the steam is done, it's time to get that razor in there.

Insert the razor at the seam of the neck and board directly at the back of the butt end. *Push (with your hand at first) very firmly. *You want that razor to get between the glue and the board. *Be careful- don't carve any wood away from the neck or board. *This is probably the toughest part. *Move the razor from the center, to the sides..opening up the first 1mm of the board. *This is VERY tedious and takes some time. *It may require more heat. *If so, put more water in the iron and hit it again with the hot steam. *You'll be a pro at ironing when you're done with this. *:-)

Now that the razor is in there, we need a little more "umph" to lift that board off the neck. *This is where your scraper/knife comes in handy. *Once the razor is in the neck (stuck fairly good), insert the scraper UNDERNEATH the board, but above the razor. *This should put you right at Glue Level, and point the scraper towards the neck instead of the fretboard. *Give it a VERY LIGHT tap with the hammer to seat it in the gap. *You may have to work it a little left-to-right. *That's fine, but make sure you've given the board PLENTY of steam heat. *Keep water in that iron and keep it on the board when you're not tapping on the paint scraper.

NEVER EVER NEVER EVER EVER "lift up" on the scraper/knife. *Let it work for you. *ALWAYS keep it angled down...towards the wood of the neck. *NEVER lift up on the scraper/knife.

Now that your scraper is seated, grab the iron again. *Set it on the next 8 or so frets. *Let it ride that neck (remember- steam full on!) for another 5 minutes or so. *Check it with a LIGHT TAP from the hammer to see if the scraper can move a little. If it moves, give it a few more taps...get another 5mm of board off (maybe more, maybe less). *ONLY TAP UNTIL THE BOARD IS STRUGGLING. *If you feel resistance, STOP. *Apply heat/steam and come back and do another 3mm. *

No- this does NOT take 5 minutes to do. *A fretboard can take me up to 2 hours. *It's not speedy, but it works great. *If it takes you an hour to go 5 frets, you're doing great.

Even if you keep good heat/steam on the board and point that scraper/knife blade towards the neck (away from the fretboard), you will probably have a few tiny chunks of fretboard that just plain don't want to come unglued. *Don't worry about those; no one will ever see them. *If it's a big chunk (the size of your pinky), try to chizel it off the neck later, and glue it back into place on the back of the board. *Pain in the azz, but glued wood is stronger than regular wood, and we want a strong fretboard, don't we? *:-)

When you reach the last few frets (5 thru 1), you'll want to be very careful- JEM inlays are big, and don't flex as much as wood does. *Plus, you need to be careful of that wood that's under the nut. *It already has two holes in it; we don't want any more.

Go VERY slow. *Take your time. *Use LOTS of steam/heat. *If you're impatinet, don't do anything above.

Now that your fretboard is off, and your neck is bare, you'll be able to see your truss rod and other stuff- bits of wood, glue stuff..all that needs to be touch-sanded off the neck. *Only use 400 grit or above on that. *JEM and Wizard necks are thin enough. :-) *Also, as tempting as it may be, DO NOT flatten out your fretboard on the coffee table. *It will have a slight upward arc to it. That's completely normal. *You should really just park the board in a safe place until it comes time to attach it to the new neck.

If you have any doubts as to doing this by yourself, do what I did my first time: *I bought a $5 POS neck from a local shop (I think it was a Hondo neck). *I practiced on a few of them before attempting my Novax fretboard. *

I'm sure glad I did. *

I'm beat. *I'll finish this verbal project in the next 48 hours. *I promise. *Let me get some pics going; they really do speak a thousand words (which is slightly smaller than this post. LOL)
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 03:06 AM
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Changing Vine inlay colors

Hey Kev, remember the hour it took you to explain this to me over the phone?? I printed it out in 30 seconds :biggrin:
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 03:10 AM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

You owe me. *:-) *I think a Fretwear UVMC should cover it.

I would have suggested Jim Donahue's CD Book (available at VintageIbanez.com), but fretboard removal is the only thing NOT in his book. *

Everyone should pick it up anyway. *It's cheap and has cool background music.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 03:10 AM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

I did a Copy and Paste in less than 5 :biggrin:
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 03:17 AM
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Changing Vine inlay colors

A smarter man than I. It'll be up in my tech section, whenever i build it LOL Full credit to Kev of course!
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 10:30 AM
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Changing Vine inlay colors

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How much trouble is it to pull the fretboard off the neck? *Or maybe it's not that hard, so rathar.......how difficult would it be to change the vine inlay colors? *Is there just a piece of green posterboard under the clear plastic? *I doubt it, but ya never know.
I would highly recommend not attempting any of the above on a neck you enjoy and appreciate. To be honest you stand a great chance of ruining it!I would lay odds on it. All for what, changing the inlay color???

Unless you are capable of doing a re-fret and fret level, i highly recommend against this. Also be prepared to clamp, etc the neck in hopes of restoring proper 'relief' and curve to the board.

If you're hell bent on inlay changing i would leave the board intact and remove each inlay one by one. You can then glue in the new ones and one-by-one level the inlays to the board.

If you want to tear off a fretboard, buy a new blank. Chances are it's better than the original one and will improve the guitar in a substantive manner, offering thicker and better wood... glen
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-09-2001, 01:17 PM
 
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Changing Vine inlay colors

Amazing. *I actually agree with Glen for once. *:-)

DO NOT remove the fretboard on your prized JEM10 as your first project. *Practice on 10 or 12 crappy necks before you even THINK of doing something like that.

His suggestion of buying a new fretboard is good too. *They're not too expensive and will guarantee you a nice flat gluing surface underneath. *As a bonus, I LOVE the look of no-inlay boards. *Some boards come pre-fretted (some touch up and you're ready to rock). *

The vine inlays are made of a hard, clear plastic material- maybe Lucite. *The back of the plastic is painted (green, blue, whatever) then the pieces are cut to fit. *
The dot inlays (on the S-series neck I took apart) are courtesy of little circles of white plastic. *They're not very thick, but the fretboard is drilled completely through. *I'll double check on these.

One little tidbit that I left out of the instructional post:
•Unscrew/loosen the truss rod all the way. *You can even leave a few threads showing as a constant reminder that it's not tight.

Pictures of my project(s) are being taken today....on the leather couch, of course. *:-)
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abalone vine , brian moore , custom guitar , dot inlay , dot inlays , fret board , fret level , jem neck , jim donahue , locking nut , locking nuts , truss rod

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