Is the height of my trem bar correct? - Page 4 - Jemsite
Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods Guitar workbench discussion such as setup, repairs, mods, installing new parts and more.

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post #46 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

I'm still at a loss. Every video I watch, they block the trem level with something either coinds or the tremblock. Rich says this is wrong, so how should the trem be blocked then? The trem should be blocked forward or negative? The only way you're going to put something in there that is slightly bigger than the hole is by making the trem negative.

I keep encountering conflicting information all of this. I just want to know how to change strings properly without messing up the bridge angle. Why wouldn't the wedges work though? You can get them in sizes for different ranges, for example, a medium wedge is for 9.5mm to 12.7mm. I've measured the hole between the back of block and guitar and is about 11.5mm

I could use that medium wedge in the hole, this would put the bridge negative, no? I'm just trying to make it easier I don't mind buying this if it means saving me looking for something of similar dimensions

Here is a video

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post #47 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 01:08 PM
 
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The video you posted is of an original floyd rose. The knife edge geometry is different. You wouldn't encounter an issue with the knife edges coming off of those posts so easy on an original floyd because the posts flare out over the knife edges pretty far. The ibanez posts Don't flare out as far. It isn't hard to have the bridge pop off when all the strings are off. I took a moment of remembering exactly what I do when I remove all the strings... I am very careful and use a folded microfiber rag under the tail end of the edge bridge. Which actually... Now that I think about it... does achieve the tilted forward angle Rich had mentioned before... I dive the bridge a bit and put it under the bridge in the cavity to help prevent it from falling off when I remove all the strings. Again I use that trem stopper thing or that tremol-no so that when I am done stringing... I can tune and stretch the strings and keep the bridge level. There's a good number of effective ways of changing the strings. Rich had mentioned that my way wasn't wrong, but different than his. And that his method is quick because he has the experience to do it quickly. If you want those wedges get them, just don't be pissed when one pops out and causes your bridge to pop out of the cavity.
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post #48 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

so the wedges achieve the opposite effect, the wedges would put the bridge negative, all of this is more complicated than it should be, I can't find any videos on youtube how change strings and setup an edge trem. So when I ship my guitar for sustainer install, if they remove all the strings, is basically going to mess up the bridge

I guess I was looking for something made of solid material that will work every time, I would just change one string at a time

for example look at this guy, he is putting coins inside the cavity at level, he has the edge bridge, so isn't that supposed to be wrong?

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post #49 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 02:27 PM
 
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You're beating a dead horse man. There's no wrong way as long as the end result gets you what you want... For Christ sake man. This guy uses an allen wrench...and coins... Rich said to use cardboard. Different items utilized the same way. You know the concept of how to do it now so just do it.

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post #50 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 02:50 PM
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

Ben uses good concepts, but none of these videos show overtuning and undertuning, which is why I never bother with all these gimmicks. They work for them, great, I don't see it saving any time for me. If the bridge angle is way too far forward crank in the claw screws as far as experience tells me will get close, then start overdetuning. Don't tune down the E, tune down to c#, a little less, on the a, a little less on the d. As you over detune that c# is going to raise in pitch. One time through then you have a good idea of where the bridge angle is and where the tuning is and readjust from there. You can tune a guitar and level the bridge in a couple minutes, which is why I've never found a need for any of these other tricks.
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post #51 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

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Originally Posted by JsXLine6 View Post
You're beating a dead horse man. There's no wrong way as long as the end result gets you what you want... For Christ sake man. This guy uses an allen wrench...and coins... Rich said to use cardboard. Different items utilized the same way. You know the concept of how to do it now so just do it.
but he said to never block the trem level which is what this guy did in the video, no?

All this stuff is more annoying than I thought it would be when I bought this guitar, and this bridge edge has to be the most bothersome of them Floyd rose style bridges.

I like the guitar and all, but I don't find myself using the bar as much as I thought I would before I got the guitar. Just like a sustainer, is a gimmick too.

All these Floyd bridges are all different and have to be set up differently, at different angles, different everything.

Anything you do to these guitars basically messes up the setup. Put bigger gauge string, messes up the setup, remove all strings at once, messes it up, drop the tuning, messes it up.

I want to learn but is so confusing, I can't learn without a proper video or someone teaching me how to do it in person where I can see how its done. I always disliked writeups and instructions online, maybe because English is my second language. I have trouble understanding these writeups. I understand the words and sentences, but not how to translate it into action in real life, because most people do not explain step by step what to do.

Like I said before, they explain things from their reality, which for them is a piece of cake, they skip or simplify steps and confuse the person reading it.

Guitar techs wouldn't even bother to teach even if you pay them, heck they couldn't even set my bridge right, I, a noob, had to do it.

So whatever you do, when you change the strings, the setup is going to mess up, you're gonna have to adjust the claw screws anyway, what's the point.

It's an annoying system where you have to be constantly adjusting, there is no permanency.

I ask myself why did I buy a guitar with this bothersome system when all I do is play at home.

I'm never going to learn how to do this with some writeups I don't know maybe I'm stupid but I taught myself to speak English and to do a lot of other things like modding my car by just watching others. In the car modding world, I have never been able to learn how to do anything by just reading those half ass writeups on forums.

I learned how to mod my car by watching videos or someone else teach me how to do it in front of me.

These floyd systems are even more complicated and annoying that modding your car imo because is constant adjusting, moving, is a balance of many parts, whereas in the car world, is mainly installing things in and out, no constant adjusting, the same applies to handyman work, for example

You learn how to install stuff in the handyman world and in 99% of cases, once installed is permanent, no continous adjusting no balancing, nothing

Last edited by Fowleri; 01-31-2021 at 06:07 PM.
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post #52 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 06:19 PM
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

If you can’t set up a Floyd Rose and you feel confident modding your car, I can tell you I would NEVER get in a vehicle with you.

It’s literally JUST a balancing act. Basic physics. Everyone has been civil and done their best to help. Please, from now on, stop the whining, ensure you post constructively and in the right forums, and spend some more time trying to work stuff out instead of expecting the world to do it for you.
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post #53 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

Well, most of the mods I have done are cosmetic, with simple performance upgrades but they are mainly plug and play. Most upgrades in a vehicle are plug and play and become a permanent part of the vehicle with no constant tuning, adjusting, balancing etc. The same concept applies to handyman work, most stuff is once installed or built, is done.

These bridges are complicated for several reasons, every one of them is different, they depend on the adjustment of several parts just to be setup and any minor adjustment either done by you or accidentally can throw everything off.

I mean if you have to block something to prevent it from going out of whack, that's a sign that this invention is archaic. It's similar to a classical guitar they are well-liked and all, but the thing is from the past, doesn't hold tune well, is an inferior system that people hold on to due to nostalgia reasons and the love for that particular sound, but the instrument itself is inferior to today's guitars.

It's a complicated system that requires every part to be adjusted just right and even changing the strings can undo this and all this machinery just to use the bar. Makes you wonder if is worth all that hassle just to wank on the bar a few times now and then. Maybe I should look into Evertune bridges or at least as a second guitar. At least it has a more permanent feeling.

Maybe I just suck at learning, all of this would much easier if I could find someone to teach me or a proper video, but then the great ones wouldn't reveal all their secrets otherwise why you need them for if you learn their trade step by step just like they do it.

People keep sending me links to Rich site, I have read it countless times before, I still cannot understand how to translate it into action in the real world, is confusing. I've been searching and watching videos on youtube for days and I still cannot fully understand how to setup this bridge, change the string and keep the bridge angle the same, intonation, etc

I understood how the angle needs to be but that's a small concept out of many that I have yet to grasp.

Last edited by Fowleri; 01-31-2021 at 06:49 PM.
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post #54 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 07:05 PM
 
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I can tell you this, a floyd is extremely simple compared to actually modding a car. This isn't a difficult thing to do. It's just new to you. Hell I'd much rather setup these guitars all day than have to put timing belt in a modern front wheel drive car... There's no room to work in cars nowadays. Or put solid lifters in a big block chevy.

Like jono said it's a balancing act, you are balancing string tension with spring tension. It's the same principal with all floating trem systems. If you want complicated try getting a strat to stay perfectly in tune when using a trem bar like you can with a floyd. If the bone nut slots are not perfectly cut... Lubricated regularly and the tuners are not high quality... Dude that it a pain in the ass. It requires a lot more prep to keep a non locking trem system in tune than a locking system. And Rich gave his opinion... It's not wrong, but it's also an opinion, opinions are different than fact. Like saying your guitar neck is made of wood is a fact! Just do it the way ben shows you and give it a rest. I'll let you in on a little secret... Rich will never know how you set it up if ya don't tell him 😉
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post #55 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 07:30 PM
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

"This message is hidden because Fowleri is on your ignore list. " is the best post that I see in this thread. I recommend it to others! Really cleans up the nonsense around here.
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post #56 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 07:49 PM
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

Fowleri has been singlehandedly keeping this site alive! Adding color to coronaville!
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post #57 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

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Originally Posted by JsXLine6 View Post
I can tell you this, a floyd is extremely simple compared to actually modding a car. This isn't a difficult thing to do. It's just new to you. Hell I'd much rather setup these guitars all day than have to put timing belt in a modern front wheel drive car... There's no room to work in cars nowadays. Or put solid lifters in a big block chevy.

Like jono said it's a balancing act, you are balancing string tension with spring tension. It's the same principal with all floating trem systems. If you want complicated try getting a strat to stay perfectly in tune when using a trem bar like you can with a floyd. If the bone nut slots are not perfectly cut... Lubricated regularly and the tuners are not high quality... Dude that it a pain in the ass. It requires a lot more prep to keep a non locking trem system in tune than a locking system. And Rich gave his opinion... It's not wrong, but it's also an opinion, opinions are different than fact. Like saying your guitar neck is made of wood is a fact! Just do it the way ben shows you and give it a rest. I'll let you in on a little secret... Rich will never know how you set it up if ya don't tell him 😉
It's confusing. I understood how to set the angle where is supposed to be. No offense to others, but if it wasn't for you and your photos, I would've never understood this from other sources.

All I'm trying to understand is how can I replace the strings, same gauge, without having the angle change, have it remain the same as before, and without having to adjust the claw screws, is this even possible?

I read conflicting information, some people say to use the tremblock, others put something under it, towel or cardboard, others block the small cavity in the back with coins, others block the big cavity with a wedge. One guy says to never block the trem level, yet every video I watch, the trems are blocked level. Now I understand is because this Edge is a different bridge.

I don't know if the small cavity or big cavity in the back have to be blocked or both, or can it be done by just putting the bridge forward with something underneath it, without blocking anything in the back. There's conflicting information everywhere and every bridge is different. Apparently, this edge bridge is very unique compared to other Floyds.

Anyway I appreciate your help, you're better at teaching and explaining things than most imo

Last edited by Fowleri; 01-31-2021 at 08:02 PM.
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post #58 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 07:59 PM
 
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The point is that all of those methods do the same thing. They're just slightly different in the tools used to achieve the same outcome. So take a method and apply it. After you do it a few times you'll have it down. I only have one guitar with a hard tail bridge. My other 5 are all floyd style trems. I feel naked without my floating trem! Hands on experience is always better than reading about it.

Last edited by JsXLine6; 01-31-2021 at 08:04 PM.
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post #59 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

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Originally Posted by JsXLine6 View Post
The point is that all of those methods do the same thing. They're just slightly different in the tools used to achieve the same outcome. So take a method and apply it. After you do it a few times you'll have it down. I only have one guitar with a hard tail bridge. My other 5 are all floyd style trems. I feel naked without my floating trem! Hands on experience is always better than reading about it.
What confuses me is this. Rich said that you shouldn't block the trem level, you want it to blocked a bit forward? and this is because the Edge is not like those Floyds bridges, is easier for it to pop off

and yet, that guy Ben Eller from that youtube video has the same Edge bridge and he blocked the bridge level. He taped up coins to fit exactly in the small cavity rather than putting the bridge more forward. So, who is doing it right or wrong

So it doesn't matter if you block the small cavity or under the bridge, you want the bridge to be somewhat forward and not level when blocked?
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post #60 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-31-2021, 08:18 PM
 
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Rich said not to do that if you remove all the strings at once. if you do half of the strings at a time it can be level. Neither are wrong they are just different approaches. If you remove all the strings and keep the bridge level you can run the risk of it popping off. Rich was giving you friendly warning based on what he has experienced.
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