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Is the height of my trem bar correct?

10K views 69 replies 14 participants last post by  Iwillbubble 
#1 ·
I finally got a new setup and the bridge was set parallel with the body. The guitar plays fine and stays in tune despite having new strings put on.

When I had the other setup by that guy who set my bridge all forward, it would take weeks for the strings to set in and stay in tune, he didn't stretch them at all.

Now my trem bar is set higher than before, maybe is because the fact my bridge was so forward before that this put the bar closer to the body?

Now that bridge is parallel, the trem bar is further away from the body. Is this normal?

It feels weird having the trem bar at this height, I was so used to having it lower.


 
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#3 ·
I didn't tell him what to do. I showed him that my bridge was too forward and requested to be parallel as it should be. Either way, I'm not going to mess with it anymore. I'll just leave it like that, the guitar stays in tune perfectly. I put chapstick on the edges in the past.

I'm tired of spending money on setups. I'll just enjoy the guitar and screw it.

Because of location, many don't have the luxury to have amazing techs who know all the ins and outs of Ibanez guitars like you. I wished I lived in your area and I'm not about to ship my guitar for setups.

I don't have the experience or even the desire to learn how to set it up let alone someone to teach me correctly in person. If these techs can't do a perfect setup, how could a noob?

I'm not a professional, just play at home, why the hell am I paying for setups anyway, as long as it stays in tune, I'm happy
 
#7 · (Edited)
his explanation and photos are so old and not detailed that is almost impossible for a noob to understand, i don't know even know how angled the baseplate is, is all worded from his frame of mind of already knowing all of this and expecting you to just figure it out, this occurs in many aspects of life

pictures are blurry I can't see anything, you cant even enlarge them

the explanation is so confusing, I understand what he is saying, but at the same im completely lost

must be my photos but when i look at my knife edges in the sitting position, they look almost parallel

maybe ill take it to the guy and see if he can raise the bridge a little, but im tired of this

in the end who cares, is it going to affect tuning or the bridge life, just because is a few millimeters lower or higher

nope

most techs are not familiar with edge trem, only Ibanez makes these trems so awkward that the baseplate is angled, why make things more difficult like this

if you look Vais SETUPS, you will see they are NOT setup the way Rich recommends, heck, his whole guitar is the complete opposite of his recommendations, including string height, angle, trem stabilizer, etc

his bridge his higher, more forward, so in the end it doesnt really matter, if it works for Vai, then it doesnt matter if is a little bit high or low, it doesn't matter if the knife edge doesn't meet the post in a perfect robotic parallel way.
 
#8 ·
It's intentionally written for 6th graders to understand. The pictures are small because they're from when the camera only shot 640 instead of 3200. If you can't see it you're the only one, nobody else has complained they can't. You can clearly see the knife edge, you can clearly see how it is parallel to the top in the JEM10. When it was written makes no difference, the trems and the setups are still the same as they were 20 years ago, the only difference is there is angle built into the neck pockets now so they usually sit a little higher. And Steve's guitars are setup properly and no different.

The simple instructions are in the ADJUSTING section.
https://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/angle.htm#ADJUST
 
#10 ·
Im just gonna leave it like this and not bother with this nonsense anymore.


Yes I tried to adjust it myself in the past by following the guides, I messed it up and the guitar not intonated and I couldn’t get right balance of action and bridge angle and all of that.

As long as this thing stays in tune which it does thats all I care about.
 
#12 ·
Im just gonna leave it like this and not bother with this nonsense anymore.

Yes I tried to adjust it myself in the past by following the guides, I messed it up and the guitar not intonated and I couldn't get right balance of action and bridge angle and all of that.

As long as this thing stays in tune which it does thats all I care about.
The issue is not the quality of Rich's resources, the issue is you. His tech resources are the best educational tool I have ever seen.
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
To start why is this in the Signature Model section and not in the Tech/Setup section?

Secondly, if being in tune is all you care about, why the thread about your whammy bar being pointed towards the sky?

Lastly, why are you bagging on Rich, who built a resource for setup that literally thousands of players have learned from? Believe me, the issue isn't his pictures or his explanation.

If you're going to enjoy this style of guitar, you're going to have to learn the basics of setup.

Good luck
 
#13 · (Edited)
Hi there,

Wow, that's a lot of latent hostility and headbashing peeps, not everybody has 30+ years of experience setting up floating trems like I do, or are corksniffing Ibanez tech geniuses 🤣

Don't you think that there's already enough bickering and contrarianism going on everywhere else on the net and IRL these days?

I haven't posted much here in the decade since I joined. I never needed to, but I have been lurking in the background, and I always remembered this forum as a place of helpfulness, positiveness, tolerance and respect.

I sincerely hope it's still the case.

If you want to help this guy out, then fine, please do, but if you're posting just to vent your frustration we'd actually be better off if you abstained.

Now, to the OP, you seem to have an attitude problem too.

Don't ask for advice if you're not prepared to graciously accept it.

You're then of course free to implement it or not.

Otherwise you might as well preface your questions with: "help, I need someone to confirm my bias about...".

By the way, it's a bad idea to bash Rich here, especially when undeserved, as he has personally helped most of us out, at one moment or another.

Anyway, if your bridge set up suits you and you're happy with it, fine by me, just let it be. I've seen worse, it looks like you still can pull up on it a bit.

Too much positive tilt is even worse, IMHE.

But you can make sure that the trem knife edge inserts are perfectly parallel to the guitar body, as by four-decades-old universal consensus that's the optimal setup for tuning stability and sustain.

Have a look at the attached photo.

This particular trem has a slight negative (backwards) tilt too, but much less, it's almost on point to my eye.

I want you to know that even if it looks like black magic at first, it isn't that difficult to learn to adjust your trem yourself.

All you need is just a little patience, an essential requirement for long-term sanity retention when dealing with floating terms.

The trick is to be methodical and adjust the spring claw screws by small increments at first, 1/8-1/4 of a turn per screw max, always keep track of how much you've tightened or loosened them from the starting point in case you need to reset it, and always tune the guitar to pitch after each adjustment.

With experience you'll eventually develop a feeling for it, so you'll be making larger adjustments in one go and be a little less strict with the tuning in between each step.

Since Rich's perfectly serviceable how-to doesn't seem to suit you, which baffles me, there are dozens of good videos on YT that you can watch.

Anyway, here is my own condensed version of the detailed steps, noob friendly as requested:

1) First check the trem cavity backplate to see if you have access to the spring screws.

Some Ibbies have 2 slots in the backplate to access them directly, so maybe you won't need to take the backplate off. Otherwise take the 6 screws off and open it up.

2) Unlock the nut screws, set all the micro-tuners on the trem at the same height (unscrew them about 2/3 out) and tune your guitar up at the headstock.

3) In your particular case, since you want the trem to tilt slightly more forward, unscrew both spring tension screws about 1/4 of a turn, maybe even less depending on how close to the right setting you already are.

(For those who need it to tilt backwards it's the opposite, screw them in 1/4 of a turn.)

A small adjustment can go a long way!

If your trem is already almost at the proper angle, with the knife inserts almost perfectly parallel to the body, adjusting just one of the screws 1/8 of a turn might be enough.

4) Tune your guitar up at the headstock again. It will take 2-3 tuning passes to get there, be patient, it's normal.

5) Check the angle of the dangle of the trem knife edges, and if necessary adjust a little more, or if you went too far turn the screws back in 1/8 of a turn.

6) It's essential to completely retune your guitar to pitch at the headstock between each adjustment when you're a noob to this, trust me. Yes, it's tedious, but that's how it must be done if you want to avoid another trip to the guitar tech.

7) When you're happy with the trem angle, re-lock your nut, put the backplate back on if you took it off, and give your guitar a final good tune with the micro-tuners.

Voilà, it can be tedious but it's not so difficult after all.

Ciao.
 

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#18 ·
Hi there,

Wow, that's a lot of latent hostility and headbashing peeps, not everybody has 30+ years of experience setting up floating trems like I do, or are corksniffing armchair Ibanez tech experts like some of you guys 🤣

If you want to help this guy out then fine, please do, but if you're posting just to vent your frustration everybody would actually be better off if you abstained.
Hi there,

There's been a great deal of patience and tolerance shown by the membership here over the last few years towards the OP, patience that is wearing thin.

With just four posts spread over 10 years, you're probably lacking a little context and background. As such, we would all be better off if you abstained from chiming in.

Anyway, your guitar's bridge setup looks acceptable to me, if you're happy with it.
And that says all the rest of what we need to know…

But thanks for dropping by.

And yes, I say that as a moderator here.
 
#14 ·
You just wrote basically the same thing I wrote 20 years ago that everybody is commenting on, which is why they're commenting. Except I go into more detail about how to quickly tune floaters by overtuning [or overdetuning] the wound strings. If he couldn't understand the way I wrote it I don't see how he understands the way you did, but it is kind of you for trying. If he's happy with it like it is who are we to care, except he has about a 1/2 step of pullup range, and should learn how to do minimal adjustments like this as every guitar player should. because obviously he doesn't have a tech that should be charging money within 100 miles.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Hey @Rich, nice to hear from you in person again, it must have been 10 years or so 😁

I hope you're doing well in these interesting times we're living in.

Man, of course I just essentially partially rewrote the how-too you put together 20 years ago, it's the only right way to do it after all.

I certainly didn't mean to discredit your work, as I said you personally helped most of us here out at one time or another, be it by sourcing rare guitars, difficult to obtain and custom made parts, and by imparting sound advice and knowledge.

But maybe I came on a bit stronger than warranted, it's just that all this constant gratuitous contrarian bickering everywhere grates on my nerves more than I'd like it to, and I'm sorry.

I didn't expect to land into more of the same when I opened a link in my jemsite's weekly highlited posts email.

Sheesh, the times they have a-changed. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

To give you an idea of how ancient I actually am by some standards, my first Ibby floater was a very red '87 Roadstar II RG440, bought brand new in a real B&M shop back then.

I guess that I deserve to be cut some slack anyway just for that 😉

Cheers man, take care.
 
#16 ·
Age is catching up with all of us!

No disrespect felt, it was getting a little bashy, too much pandemic fever I suspect. My first floater came a couple years later, 540R that was a year old, I guess the guy bought it and never learned, I was looking for a JS1 but it was close enough at the time. I still have it, it's sentimental, and survived a near fatal accident in 96'!

Stay healthy!
 
#17 ·
When I restring my guitars, I just put some sponge/foam kinda stuff under the bridge in the trem cavity to keep it in the correct position. Then just put on new strings, tune them, take off the sponge/whatever (The bridge will remain in it's position), stretch strings and tune, lock the saddle and fine tune and then go on. Takes about 20 minutes for the whole process between old and new strings.

Sometimes, when I ain't got anything to put in the cavity, I just press down the trem bar with my right hand so that the bridge is in the right position while turning the tuners in headstock with my left hand. Works really well, too.

I got my first Ibanez (Roadstar II RG440) in about 1995-1996. Had no clue about the Ibanez Edge then. Had no access to internet at that time. Just had to figure out what to do and what not. Took a year to realize about the intonation etc.

BTW, my first electric was this model and color. Cool guitar. Wish I still had it.
https://reverb.com/uk/item/27662383...-1986-w-floyd-rose-licensed-tremolo-dark-wine
 
#20 ·
English is my second language. I’ve mentioned this before and although my English is good, is not same as trying to learn to do something in your own language. I’m more of a visual person and always found it difficult to learn how to do something by just reading instructions off the internet.

This happens because the person writing the instructions doesn’t usually put himself in the shoes of the noob. The frame of mind is different as he is looking at things and steps from his reality.

The only way I would learn to do my own setup is by watching the whole thing and being taught what to do every step of the way. This requires time and effort that 99% of techs will not do for free or even if you paid them.

If you think some simple writeup in green fonts with ancient background or some youtube video guides are enough for a noob to learn enough to do their setups then everyone would be doing them and guitar techs would be out of business
 
#24 ·
Hello guys, I adjusted the angle and ended up with this, I think the line on the side is almost level with the top of the body, but this raised the action a little bit, so no I need to lower the action of the high strings from 2.0 to 1.5mm on 12th fret. I don't even have the tool to unlock the post screws as bought guitar used. I had no idea it had to be unlocked as I have never seen a tech do the setup in front of me.

 
#26 · (Edited)
Looks dead on to me. The tool is actually pretty reasonable on amazon. I bought the ibanez brand intonation tool for $38 shipped about a month ago. It can be done without it though. If you remove your springs and pop the bridge off you can adjust the intonation. Then pop the bridge back on, put your springs back in and retune... The multi tool is like $20 with all the allen keys and what ever else is on there.
 
#28 ·
When I want to adjust the action, do I have to unlock the string lock screws, you know the ones that stick out the bridge? maybe I'm confused about that

My only concern is what happens when is time to change strings, if I remove all the strings at once, this could alter the bridge angle, so I would need to use something to block the bridge and change one string at a time. There is this tremblock but I don't know if it will work. There also wedges that you can put in between the block.

https://skyscraperguitars.com/store...olo-Setup-Blocks/p/75945611/category=25043259

I'm going to ship my guitar in the future for the sustainer installation, but they will probably remove all the strings at once and leave it like that for days, so I'll have to put one of these wedges or something in there
 
#29 · (Edited)
When you raise or lower the bridge you do not need to unlock the nut. It may go very slightly sharp or flat in tuning... but that shouldn't be too hard to adjust. To adjust the action all you need to do is adjust the bridge posts height, no need to loosen anything but the set screw in each post. The allen screws protruding behind the bridge are the screws that cause the string clamping block to clamp the string in place in the saddle.

I have these in my guitars to aid me in quick restringing and or setup. One is just a tremolo stopper (the green guitar has this one) it makes it easy to do a good cleaning or string gauge change for easy intonation adjustments. The other is an All-Parts Tremol-no. It allows you to make your trem a dive only or give you a hard tail bridge effect. I also use it when I restring because I can lock the bridge in place. The other picture has the saddle screw circled. This is where the intonation is adjusted. It helps a lot if you have one of these to adjust intonation on a floater.

https://www.amazon.com/Ibanez-EJK-E...1612044364&sprefix=ibanez+into,aps,141&sr=8-1

These things come in handy. If you don't have one though, the trem stopper or the tremol-no make it easy, just wind in the trem stopper screw or lock down the tremolo-no.... loosen the string that needs intonating, unlock the saddle screw, adjust the saddle... lock it all back down and retune. You can achieve a similar effect with those wedges though.

Here's a full description of intonation adjustments

http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/intonation.htm

If you do have a method of blocking the trem so it stays flat, restringing is much simpler. Having a trem blocking\locking method makes the setup much simpler. Though just replacing one or two strings at a time works fine too. As long as you stretch and tune each string... or every 2 strings before moving on you should be able to keep your trem angle correct and everything in tune.
 

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#30 ·
I haven't used an intonation tool in 20 years, a turbo winder is your best friend and far faster. Even faster if you just set the E and D and know where the rest are going to naturally fall depending on which bridge it is.

They sell wood blocks for $10 when you can roll up cardboard for free?

I will still never, ever, block a floater level and pull the strings. The trem will blow off the studs with the slightest jolt, or if well lubed, just by looking at it wrong.
 
#37 ·
I haven't used an intonation tool in 20 years, a turbo winder is your best friend and far faster. Even faster if you just set the E and D and know where the rest are going to naturally fall depending on which bridge it is.

They sell wood blocks for $10 when you can roll up cardboard for free?

I will still never, ever, block a floater level and pull the strings. The trem will blow off the studs with the slightest jolt, or if well lubed, just by looking at it wrong.
so what about that tremblock device, what's wrong using that to block the bridge and change the strings? A lot of people use that to change strings. I've watched videos of people doing that without any issues.

I'm going to ship my guitar for sustainer install. They will probably have to remove all the strings and will remain like that during the installation until they restring it. I doubt they could do this sustainer install without removing all the strings as the electronics are behind the pickguard.

If they remove all the strings, this is going to mess up the trem angle. I was thinking of putting something like a wedge in between the block and shipping the guitar like that. Is this a bad idea? Would this mess up the bridge?

I'll probably have to get another setup or readjust it everything myself after the sustainer install if I just ship it without anything
 
#31 ·
Yeah I have had a bridge pop off before. I Do it once in a while though to clean everything. I am probably pretty weird when it comes to keeping the crevasses clean lol. I just bought that ibanez tool a month ago, I have not used it yet, but I had an amazon gift card... figured I'd give it a try.
 
#32 ·
Always block at the highest angle, the bridge will never blow off. Have one crack the clear on the cavity of a DNA and you'll learn too. And I've never or will ever change one string at a time, it takes longer and at some point you're going to have to learn to pull them all or you'll never be able to clean the fretboard.
 
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