Is the height of my trem bar correct? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-24-2021, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Is the height of my trem bar correct?

I finally got a new setup and the bridge was set parallel with the body. The guitar plays fine and stays in tune despite having new strings put on.

When I had the other setup by that guy who set my bridge all forward, it would take weeks for the strings to set in and stay in tune, he didn't stretch them at all.

Now my trem bar is set higher than before, maybe is because the fact my bridge was so forward before that this put the bar closer to the body?

Now that bridge is parallel, the trem bar is further away from the body. Is this normal?

It feels weird having the trem bar at this height, I was so used to having it lower.


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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-24-2021, 07:51 PM
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

Sorry, but you found another idiot tech, or you told him what to do. The knife edge is set parallels, not the baseplate. Now it's way to far negative.
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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-24-2021, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Sorry, but you found another idiot tech, or you told him what to do. The knife edge is set parallels, not the baseplate. Now it's way to far negative.
I didn't tell him what to do. I showed him that my bridge was too forward and requested to be parallel as it should be. Either way, I'm not going to mess with it anymore. I'll just leave it like that, the guitar stays in tune perfectly. I put chapstick on the edges in the past.

I'm tired of spending money on setups. I'll just enjoy the guitar and screw it.

Because of location, many don't have the luxury to have amazing techs who know all the ins and outs of Ibanez guitars like you. I wished I lived in your area and I'm not about to ship my guitar for setups.

I don't have the experience or even the desire to learn how to set it up let alone someone to teach me correctly in person. If these techs can't do a perfect setup, how could a noob?

I'm not a professional, just play at home, why the hell am I paying for setups anyway, as long as it stays in tune, I'm happy
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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-24-2021, 08:09 PM
 
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Dude, I promise you you’ll learn how to level the trem if you give it an afternoon (not even that, just a couple of hours) and you’ll stop wasting money on these setups. Check out Rich’s tech section
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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-24-2021, 08:10 PM
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

https://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/angle.htm#ED
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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-24-2021, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

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Originally Posted by joabim View Post
Dude, I promise you youíll learn how to level the trem if you give it an afternoon (not even that, just a couple of hours) and youíll stop wasting money on these setups. Check out Richís tech section
I tried that and messed it up before
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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-25-2021, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

his explanation and photos are so old and not detailed that is almost impossible for a noob to understand, i don't know even know how angled the baseplate is, is all worded from his frame of mind of already knowing all of this and expecting you to just figure it out, this occurs in many aspects of life

pictures are blurry I can't see anything, you cant even enlarge them

the explanation is so confusing, I understand what he is saying, but at the same im completely lost

must be my photos but when i look at my knife edges in the sitting position, they look almost parallel

maybe ill take it to the guy and see if he can raise the bridge a little, but im tired of this

in the end who cares, is it going to affect tuning or the bridge life, just because is a few millimeters lower or higher

nope

most techs are not familiar with edge trem, only Ibanez makes these trems so awkward that the baseplate is angled, why make things more difficult like this

if you look Vais SETUPS, you will see they are NOT setup the way Rich recommends, heck, his whole guitar is the complete opposite of his recommendations, including string height, angle, trem stabilizer, etc

his bridge his higher, more forward, so in the end it doesnt really matter, if it works for Vai, then it doesnt matter if is a little bit high or low, it doesn't matter if the knife edge doesn't meet the post in a perfect robotic parallel way.

Last edited by Fowleri; 01-25-2021 at 10:26 PM.
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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2021, 12:47 AM
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

It's intentionally written for 6th graders to understand. The pictures are small because they're from when the camera only shot 640 instead of 3200. If you can't see it you're the only one, nobody else has complained they can't. You can clearly see the knife edge, you can clearly see how it is parallel to the top in the JEM10. When it was written makes no difference, the trems and the setups are still the same as they were 20 years ago, the only difference is there is angle built into the neck pockets now so they usually sit a little higher. And Steve's guitars are setup properly and no different.

The simple instructions are in the ADJUSTING section.
https://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/angle.htm#ADJUST
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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2021, 04:19 AM
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

Oh dear.

Another "tech" who is not able to do their job.

@Fowleri . Your main problem is that you're just not willing to invest the necessary time and effort into learning a basic aspect of guitar maintenance. Instead you're burning time AND money getting other people to acheive less than you could yourself with just a little more effort.
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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2021, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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Im just gonna leave it like this and not bother with this nonsense anymore.


Yes I tried to adjust it myself in the past by following the guides, I messed it up and the guitar not intonated and I couldn’t get right balance of action and bridge angle and all of that.

As long as this thing stays in tune which it does thats all I care about.
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post #11 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2021, 10:36 AM
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

To start why is this in the Signature Model section and not in the Tech/Setup section?

Secondly, if being in tune is all you care about, why the thread about your whammy bar being pointed towards the sky?

Lastly, why are you bagging on Rich, who built a resource for setup that literally thousands of players have learned from? Believe me, the issue isn't his pictures or his explanation.

If you're going to enjoy this style of guitar, you're going to have to learn the basics of setup.

Good luck
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Last edited by jono; 01-26-2021 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Good catch - thread moved :)
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post #12 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2021, 07:44 PM
 
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fowleri View Post
Im just gonna leave it like this and not bother with this nonsense anymore.


Yes I tried to adjust it myself in the past by following the guides, I messed it up and the guitar not intonated and I couldnít get right balance of action and bridge angle and all of that.

As long as this thing stays in tune which it does thats all I care about.
The issue is not the quality of Rich's resources, the issue is you. His tech resources are the best educational tool I have ever seen.
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post #13 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2021, 10:03 PM
 
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Hi there,

Wow, that's a lot of latent hostility and headbashing peeps, not everybody has 30+ years of experience setting up floating trems like I do, or are corksniffing wannabe armchair Ibanez tech geniuses 🤣

Don't you think that there's already enough bickering and contrarianism going on everywhere else on the net and IRL these days?

I haven't posted much here in the decade since I joined because I never needed to, but I have been lurking in the background, and I always remembered this forum as a place of helpfulness, positiveness, tolerance and respect.

I sincerely hope it's still the case.

If you want to help this guy out then fine, please do, but if you're posting just to vent your frustration we'd actually be better off if you abstained.

Now, to the OP, you seem to have an attitude problem too.

Don't ask for advice if you're not prepared to graciously accept it.

You're then of course free to implement it or not.

Otherwise you might as well preface your questions with: "help, I need someone to confirm my bias about...".

By the way, it's a bad idea to bash Rich here, especially when undeserved, as he has personally helped most of us out, at one moment or another.

Anyway, if your guitar's bridge set up suits you and you're happy with it, fine by me, just let it be. I've seen worse, and you still can pull up on it a bit.

Too much positive tilt is even worse IME.

But if you want you can make sure that the trem's knife edge inserts are perfectly parallel to the guitar's body, as by four-decades-old universal lore and consensus that's the optimal setup for tuning stability and sustain.

Have a look at the attached photo. This particular trem has a slight negative (backwards) tilt too, but much less, it's almost on point to my eye.

I want you to know that even if it looks like black magic at first, it's actually perfectly possible to learn to adjust the trem angle yourself with a little patience, and it's part of the required skill set for long-term floating trem guitar ownership.

The trick is to be methodical and adjust the spring claw screws by small increments, keep track of how much you've tightened or loosened them and always retune the guitar to perfect pitch after each adjustment.

With more experience you can eventually be a little less strict with the last step, as you'll have learned to gauge how much to compensate one way or the other.

Since Rich's perfectly serviceable how-to doesn't seem to suit you, which baffles me, there are dozens of good videos on YT you can watch to guide you.

Anyway, here is my own condensed version of the detailed steps, noob friendly as requested, in the right order:

1) First check the trem cavity backplate to see if you have access to the spring screws.

Some of those older Ibbies already have 2 slots in the backplate to access them directly, so maybe you don't even need to take the backplate off. Otherwise take the 6 screws off and open it up.

2) Then unlock your nut screws, set all the micro-tuners on the trem at the same height (unscrew them about 2/3 out) and tune your guitar up at the headstock.

3) In your case, since you'd want the trem to tilt slightly more forward, unscrew both spring tension screws about 1/4 of a turn, sometimes even less depending on how close to the right adjustment you already are.

(For those who need it to tilt backwards it's the opposite, screw them in 1/4 of a turn.)

CAREFUL HERE, a small adjustment goes a long way! If your trem is already almost at the proper angle, with the knife inserts almost perfectly parallel to the body, adjusting just one of the screws 1/8 of a turn might be enough.

4) Tune your guitar up at the headstock again. It will take 2-3 tuning passes to get there, but it's normal.

5) Check the angle of the dangle of the trem knife edges, and if necessary adjust a little more, or if you went too far turn the screws back in 1/8 of a turn.

6) It's ESSENTIAL to completely retune your guitar to perfect pitch at the headstock between each adjustment when you're a noob to this, trust me. It's tedious but that's how it must be done if you want to avoid another trip to the guitar tech.

7) When you're happy with your trem angle, re-lock your nut, put the backplate back on if you took it off, and give your guitar a final good tune with the micro-tuners.

Voilŗ, not so difficult after all.

Cheers.
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Last edited by Exxi3; 02-03-2021 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Clarity, syntax and content. Cheers.
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post #14 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2021, 10:56 PM
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Re: Is the height of my trem bar correct?

You just wrote basically the same thing I wrote 20 years ago that everybody is commenting on, which is why they're commenting. Except I go into more detail about how to quickly tune floaters by overtuning [or overdetuning] the wound strings. If he couldn't understand the way I wrote it I don't see how he understands the way you did, but it is kind of you for trying. If he's happy with it like it is who are we to care, except he has about a 1/2 step of pullup range, and should learn how to do minimal adjustments like this as every guitar player should. because obviously he doesn't have a tech that should be charging money within 100 miles.
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post #15 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-28-2021, 01:42 AM
 
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Hey @Rich , nice to hear from you in person again, it must have been 10 years or so 😁

I hope you're doing well in these interesting times we're living in.

Man, of course I just essentially partially rewrote the how-too you put together 20 years ago, it's the only right way to do it after all.

I certainly didn't mean to discredit your work, as I said you personally helped most of us here out at one time or another, be it by sourcing rare guitars, difficult to obtain and custom made parts, and by imparting sound advice and knowledge.

But maybe I came on a bit stronger than warranted, it's just that all this constant gratuitous contrarian bickering everywhere grates on my nerves more than I'd like it to, and I'm sorry.

I didn't expect to land into more of the same when I opened a link in my jemsite's weekly highlited posts email.

Sheesh, the times they have a-changed. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

To give you an idea of how ancient I actually am by some standards, my first Ibby floater was a very red '87 Roadstar II RG440, bought brand new in a real B&M shop back then.

I guess that I deserve to be cut some slack anyway just for that 😉

Cheers man, take care.

Last edited by Exxi3; 01-28-2021 at 01:54 AM.
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