Hipshot Trem-Setter Problem - Jemsite
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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hipshot Trem-Setter Problem

Long story short...

When I use the trem to make the pitch go down - the tuning is HIGH afterwards

When I use the trem to make the pitch go up - the tuning is LOW

Now the only way to correct the HIGH is to make the pitch go up and it puts it back to tune perfectly. The opposite for the LOW.

No fancy tuning - EADGBE
No heavy springs - 009-011-016-024w-032w-042w

Just going out of my mind here
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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 03:14 PM
 
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I'm writing not because I can offer any solutions, but to tell you that the exact same thing happened to me. flat after pullups, sharp after dives. I couldn't explain it, and neither could the guy at Hipshot -- I called them, and he didn't have any answers.

so, I ended up putting it back the way it used to be, without the hipshot. would have been worthwhile if it actually kept the guitar in stable tuning, but it didnt' -- and it kills flutter. I figure, if I can't get stable tuning, at least I'll be able to hang onto the flutter.

sorry that doesn't help at all. but we can co-miserate.
-Jeff
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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 03:19 PM
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Classic symptoms of a loose or walking nut
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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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jeffrg270 - thanks for letting me know that I am not the only one going though this

Rich - could you explain this to me a little better? Thanks
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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 04:35 PM
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Dive the nut moves toward the head so the strings come back sharp. Pull-up the nut moves back where it's supposed to be but strings are flat [depending on how it was tuned to beging with]
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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 04:55 PM
 
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but all bets are off with the tremsetter. the flat-after-pullups, sharp-after-dives things was a very consistent finding after installing the tremsetter, but wasn't as consistent with just the regular springs...so I dont' think it was entirely a nut problem for me. But you should still check to make srue the screws holding down the neck are snug. From my experience, a walking nut won't cause tuning instability to be subtle -- whammy action will make it WAY out of tune!

One thing it might be due to is string slipping, even though I think rich says this is pretty uncommon on his tech page. I think that also results in the counterintuitive sharp-after-dives, flat-after-pullups effect, because when you dive, the string slips towards the top of the neck, resulting in increased tension after letting the bridge rise to neutral. And when you pull up, the strings get stretched towards the bridge, resulting in them being a little looser when you return to neutral...

that whole last paragraph could be completely wrong -- Rich would know...I'm no expert, but I'm thinking that SOMETHING might be wrong with the nut on my jem, so I'm going to swap it out.

-J
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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-19-2004, 05:16 PM
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That's correct, slipping strings act the same as a walking nut, except a walking nut will dramatically affect all strings and a slipped string will effect that one the worst and the rest less, just because of the nature of a locked system
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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-20-2004, 03:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hrmmm...

I didn't have any problems before the trem-setter.

I didn't remove any of the strings, I just removed the trem leaving the strings on.

What I probably will do today is remove everything again, and start over again making sure that there is the same exact distance between the claw screws, springs, etc...

Thanks for the help and I will keep you updated
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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-20-2004, 03:32 AM
 
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Well, I don't know about the trem setter issue.

I do know that after some advice from Ibanez rules given to my customer, that I got a guitar with a magnitude of problems from everything from the knife edges, anchors, and set screw and walking nut.

What I had to do was reset the nut and REMOVE the glue as told to place at the locking nut and reset with a handmade piece of hardwood placed between the nut and the fretboard, and de intonate to correct the 30000" movement shift.

This fixed the sharp issues and the nut from rocking.

PLEASE,
I don't care if Ibanez Rules or Dan Erlewine says to put glue in the locking nut to stop this problem..


DO NOT DO IT!!

It is a ghetto fix that is incorrect...

Also had another customer today that installed a hip shop version of the D tuna at the E string tuner.

The string would not be in tune even after strobing and setting intonation +/- 1 cent

Turns out that he was using a really fat E string on his tele and the only thing that compensated was to "detune" the intonation.

I find that is a typical issue that I have to deal with to fix intonation on many instruments...

Of course in most cases the Buzz Feiten Tuning system will eliminate this problem...Well, I dont know about the trem setter issue.


Edit. double post in the same post. Thats what copy/paste gets me....
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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-20-2004, 03:46 AM
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Maybe you should check with Hoshino USA then because that is they're recomended fix to stabilize a walking nut.

With wood glue you can peel the nut off at any given time. Unless this is some new twist to the Buzz Feiton where you move the nut in the wrong direction, you just displaced the nut .2mm so now the intonation on the entire guitar is out and always will be until you reseat the nut at the end of the board where it's supposed to be. I thought about front shimming, then thought better about it. decided on wood glue. Called Hosh next day to ask what they do, wood glue, I was hoping they had a more complex answer than something I could come up with. Frank and I discussed on another thread that shimming the rear of the bolt holes was possibly a better way to go. Either way, nothing wrong with wood glue, it stuck didn't it?!

Anchors??? Set screws? Huh??

Obviously the guitar HAD a magnitude of problems or he wouldn't have been asking my advice to begin with.
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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-20-2004, 04:05 AM
 
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yeah, ok.. Im an authorized Ibanez warranty repair center and you are not

Which is why I feel there is all the animosity you have to me esp since I wont sell you parts at ridiculous cheap prices(PER IBANEZ DEMAND)
So you can tout yourself off as an Ibanez dealer at my expense of 10 % profit .. blah blah..


Disclaimer on your site. : "not associated with Ibanez/Hoshino usa."

Not on my site.....

and FYI: Glue is a temporary fix to this issue.

Thanks to your advise to MY customer, I had to UNDO what you told him to do and now he is VERY happy with his guitar..

Glue holding.. well yes, glue holds for a season. but intonation was a relevant problem because of that.
problem solved on my end.

Bottom line Rich, Stop being so puffed up as the expert on all Ibanez related issues.
We both have allot more to learn....
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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-20-2004, 04:12 AM
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I'll admit I have much to learn, and I know just how easy it is to be a certified Ibanez warraty and repair center. Obviously you don't have to prove any qualifications for the job

I tout myself as an Ibanez dealer? LOL I AM an Ibanez dealer, I'm just not authorized. You cut your own throat with as much $'s worth of parts I order a year. I've got no animosity cause you wouldn't order parts, you WOULD have, JD got you scared. I have no problems getting parts anyway. I tried throwing some buisness your way, no skin off my nose if you don't want it.

Glue is the correct fix, no matter what season. It expands and contracts with the season. You solved no intonation problem, you caused one.
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-20-2004, 04:33 AM
 
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We both have allot to learn..
Period.

As far as how easy it is to get Ibanez certified for warranty repair...
You are in a dream world.

You and I BOTH KNOW How HARD it is.. Otherwise you would have been certified a LONG time ago..
PERIOD.

Stop disqualifying this issue.

Yes, I respect you but you burned the wrong bridges with Hoshino...

And NO.. you are NOT an Ibanez dealer.
You are a second hand dealer. and any and ALL warranties can ONLY go thru you... NOT IBANEZ..

So if you go bankrupt or disappear for any reason, the buyer has ZERO recourse with Hoshino/Ibanez...
END OF THE LINE...


As far as biz you "tried" throwing my way.
Yeah, right. that biz woulda got my dealership revoked.
(In in turn have sent MANY buyers YOUR way for parts..)

You tried to place the SAME EXACT order a day prior to ordering thru me.
JD even said, " is this for Rich"
And I was like yeah.. and was warned about selling to you that I could lose MY dealership because Ibanez WILL NOT SELL TO YOU!.
Im not risking my Hoshino USA/Ibanez dealership for YOU or anyone esle!'

Like I said, I have ALLOT OF RESPECT FOR YOU, but you evidentially have zero for me.

So be it.

and BTW: study the Physics behind glue and tension...
WRONG FIX....
ONLY a mastered shim will ERRANTLY fix the issue at hand.

I love ya bro..
Please don't get me wrong...
But your cheap shots at me in previous threads caused by jealously leaves me no recourse but the truth...

Peace....
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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-20-2004, 04:38 AM
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[quote="vwall"]Well, I don't know about the trem setter issue.

I do know that after some advice from Ibanez rules given to my customer, that I got a guitar with a magnitude of problems from everything from the knife edges, anchors, and set screw and walking nut.[quote]

I don't get how knife edges, anchors, and set screw problems have anything to do with a walking nut. Maybe the customer doesn't know how to work on a guitar, and he jacked it up himself. I know that a ton of jemsiters go by rich's advice, and i don't hear about how their guitars have gotten screwed up.
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 02-20-2004, 04:43 AM
 
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[quote="Fry"][quote="vwall"]Well, I don't know about the trem setter issue.

I do know that after some advice from Ibanez rules given to my customer, that I got a guitar with a magnitude of problems from everything from the knife edges, anchors, and set screw and walking nut.
Quote:

I don't get how knife edges, anchors, and set screw problems have anything to do with a walking nut. Maybe the customer doesn't know how to work on a guitar, and he jacked it up himself. I know that a ton of jemsiters go by rich's advice, and i don't hear about how their guitars have gotten screwed up.
Yes indeed.... There were multiple issues with the guitar and many caused by the owner with Ibanez Rules advice...

I appreciate you trying to back Rich up.. But there is more to this reality than disclosed....
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buzz feiten , buzz feiten tuning system , claw screws , dan erlewine , feiten tuning system , hoshino usa , ibanez dealer , locking nut , nut height , sam ash , trem setter , tuning system

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