Installing an ibanez backstop - Page 2 - Jemsite
Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods Guitar workbench discussion such as setup, repairs, mods, installing new parts and more.

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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-16-2004, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
Sure but if all you need is to be in tune while bending then the tremsetter will do a better job because it has it's own middle position where it stays until you grab hold of the bar.

Dave, if you add enough tension on the springs (and backstop) as to hold the bridge down when bending you can forget about fluttering alltogether.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the only reason Mr Nordegg has installed one on EVO is because Steve loves to lift the guitar by the bar and the backstop provides enough counterpressure to hold the trem from poping out of the posts.

ilia
hey dex, maybe so...dunno. I do know that I do the lift by the bar thing pretty regularly, and it seems okay...Steve also does it on Flo and all his other guitars, doesn't have a problem...I'm assuming it provides more functionality then just that.

But you may be right.

If it doesn't allow me to flutter, it will be bye bye backstop! It'll be up for sale within days.
Most of my music is FULL of flutter ,can't sacrifice it on my main guitar.



Is there anyone out there that has it that can still do flutters?
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-16-2004, 12:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
I have a sneaky suspicion that Mr Nordegg has installed one on EVO because Steve loves to lift the guitar by the bar and the backstop provides enough counterpressure to hold the trem from poping out of the posts.
good idea, Dex.
i always had the suspicion that Vai's Backstops have been set just to provide the perfect return to zero of the Edges, rather than insuring tuning in case of string-break. this way you won't need to set it too tight, i guess, since Vai uses to lift the bar so many times even during the same song. i mean, he lifts the bar pretty much more than he breaks strings.
gotta try that...
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-16-2004, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davester1234
hey rich!

I actually had a fourth spring on my 777vbk for years, and it helped a TINY bit, but the bridge would still raise significantly everytime I did a bend, that's why I've decided that something needs to be done. The spring just wasn't cutting it. NOTE, since I play my 7vwh more and have the same exact problem (naturally), it'll get the mod for now.
There is room for 5 springs
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-16-2004, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Quote:
Originally Posted by davester1234
hey rich!

I actually had a fourth spring on my 777vbk for years, and it helped a TINY bit, but the bridge would still raise significantly everytime I did a bend, that's why I've decided that something needs to be done. The spring just wasn't cutting it. NOTE, since I play my 7vwh more and have the same exact problem (naturally), it'll get the mod for now.
There is room for 5 springs
yeah, but I already didn't like the stiffness that 4 springs brought when depressing the bar, i was snapping whammy bars all the time (3-4 times a year)...and judging by my VERY limited success in neutralizing the trem with 4 springs, buying a 5th spring for a few bucks seems like a waste of money. Added stiffness, with extremely limited stability during bends.


Nuno, can you flutter the bridge with your backstop installed?
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-17-2004, 06:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davester1234
Nuno, can you flutter the bridge with your backstop installed?
if i set it for string-breaks, no flutter.
if i set it for return-to-zero, quite a bit flutter, but not like Vai does
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-18-2004, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Nuno...or anyone else for that matter...

I am assuming that if the situation calls for extreme fluttering (ie, in the studio or whatever) the backstop can be loosened considerably and then re-tightened when neccessary, to give you the best of both worlds when needed.


That type manipulation would just require tightening or loosening the knobs of the backstop, without any major setup overhaul, right?
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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 02:22 AM
 
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You'd likely have to make a quick adjustment to the claw screws as well, as you'd have to remove the extra counterpressure that's used in conjunction with the Backstop...
So, a Phillips screwdriver and some finger-turning of the Backstop piston barrel adjusters.
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 02:51 AM
 
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would anybody be so kind as to help me aquire a Backstop for my guitar? I would really appreciate it. PM or email at [email protected]

God bless,

Tony
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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 03:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davester1234
That type manipulation would just require tightening or loosening the knobs of the backstop, without any major setup overhaul, right?
if you tighten the Backstop pistons until they barely touch the trem-block, i guess you wont need any setup issues, but you have to be very precise.
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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 03:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppiesonacid
would anybody be so kind as to help me aquire a Backstop for my guitar?
take a look on ebay or on Jemsite Classifieds: you might found a couple a year, for about 70-80 bucks at least.
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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 03:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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I'm still a bit confused...

i totally get how the backstop can a/make it harder to pull up on the bar and b/keep the guitar in tune if you break a string (string breaks cause the bridge to dip into the body, but the backstop would stop it dead in its tracks - counterpressure)


How will the backstop prevent other strings from going out of tune when you do bends? Bends raise the ass end of the bridge...wouldn't the backstop only work if the ass end of the bridge is going down?

By the way, i still haven't recieved the unit.. I'll be posting flutter tests before and after for your listening pleasure.
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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 04:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davester1234
...wouldn't the backstop only work if the ass end of the bridge is going down?
yep.
that's why you have to tighten the trem' springs more than they usually are, and that's why the Backstop stiffens the arm' pushing and kills flutter.

when you bend, the trem' springs will provide counter-pressure to keep the trem tail in position, thus keeping the open string to get out of tune.
when a string breaks, the Backstop will provide keeping the trem horizontal by pushing its pistons against the trem-block.
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-24-2004, 04:01 AM Thread Starter
 
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crap...

I got a problem.

I've installed the unit, but my guitar is not routed so the backstop can sit in low enough so it won't touch the springs of the guitar.

The center spring touches the 'high part' of the middle of the backstop creating tuning instability and wretched spring noises.

See pics of the backstop on jemsite here:

http://www.jemsite.com/tech/img/ibzbackstop1.jpg

in the top right picture on the page, the hump I'm refering to is on the bottom side of the backstop

in the bottom left picture, hump is on the top of the backstop.
http://www.jemsite.com/tech/img/ibzbackstop1.jpg

That point is where the center spring touches.


Instead of routing my guitar, I'm considering filing down that part of the backstop perhaps as much as a quarter inch to give the spring some more headroom.
I don't suspect this will alter the units performance in any way.
Would you guys recommend this? I don't think there's much else I can do besides route my guitar, and I will not do that, as I don't even know if I like the damn thing yet.
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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-24-2004, 04:59 AM
 
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i've got to ask, is this guitar an ibanez with and edge or lo pro edge tremolo? to date, every RG, JS, Power or Radius i've seen is designed to fit these things, my 3120 purchased 2 years ago is...

i'm sorry to hear of this. personally, i'd go for a cavity routing, probably wouldn't take much. it'd be cool as long as you're careful and do it right. then again, i've been known to route out single coil slots to HB size with a dremel tool. people laughed, until they saw it looked factory.

anyway, that's just me. if you decide to tear into the backstop with something buzzy though, forget resale...

mike
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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-24-2004, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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the guitar has a lo-pro edge...a 7vwh.
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Tags
base plate , claw screws , edge trem , guitar body , ibanez backstop , neck shim , pro edge , pro edge trem , pro edge tremolo , spring cavity , string breakage , trem arm , trem block , trem stability , whammy bars

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