Installing an ibanez backstop - Page 3 - Jemsite
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-24-2004, 02:18 PM
 
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It's hit-and-miss on this; depends on the relationship between bridge height to body surface (eg: neck shim = raising bridge studs to get appropriate action, which brings the springs closer to the surface of the spring cavity in back).
When the Backstop was a current item, I believe the standard route for any RG/Radius/etc type guitar included the relief route to accomodate a Backstop - I have a good friend with an old RG5xx (originally HSS, no pickguard) and it includes the extra routing stock.

For suggestions; TheToneZone is quite right about altering the unit - although it probably wouldn't cause any structural problems, it would be a cause for concern for a potential buyer, if in fact you don't wind up liking the Backstop's change to your trem's movement (and my guess is, from what I've read, you won't; it will detract too much from your flutter, and stiffen up the over-all feel of the bridge.)
Then again, I'm sure you don't want to carve into the body, especially when you're not sure you'll keep it in there...
Is there a chance that you've got a thick neck shim in your neck pocket? If so, you /could/ go to the lengths of TEMPORARILY removing part or all of that thickness, and dropping the bridge further into the body to help create spring clearance over the Backstop. Get it set up quickly and well enough to tell if you'll actually like the Backstop in there. If so, do a little relief routing (it's not much, it's just because the spring cavity is shallower at the claw end...), or grind out a bit of the Backstop base plate. If not, you're left with a couple of small screw holes in the spring cavity, and a Backstop that will still re-sell for a good $ to the right buyer.

Hope this helps.
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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-24-2004, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanx for the advice Steve. I don't really want to play around with the neck, I have a tendency to botch everything I set my paws to! LOL!
I've had to play around with brigde height/action, and now my guitar won't properly stay in tune (even with the backstop removed). The bridge stays considerably sharp when I pull up, and have to tap it down for it to go to its original neutral position.


But I could lower the action of the guitar and play with the bridge height to see if i can compensate, just as a temp fix to see if playing with the backstop is even worth it before I file down its metal.

The minimal experience I had playing the backstop has told my gut that I probably won't like it...the stiffness is certainly manageable, but it kills about 70% of the guitars flutter capacity, and it sounds a bit clunky. mind you, I haven't installed the rubber piece onto the tremblock, as I was told this would help maximize flutter. That might eliminate the clunkiness.
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-29-2004, 12:25 AM
 
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The rubber bumper will help with the clunkiness - it won't change the flutter in any significant way, though. A Backstop is pretty much the polar opposite of flutter.
Adding weight to the trem arm toward the end would increase flutter... I don't know how one would do this (besides one of Rich's arm sleeves; any additional weight out there would help).
Myself, I keep my bars set so that they stay put (not swinging freely): this increases flutter, too, by keeping the weight of the arm perpendicular to the fulcrum plane of the Edge's pivot. But I don't use a Backstop - I've tried them, and had one tucked away for years (its instructions are the ones scanned and posted here and on Rich's site) and finally decided to sell it to one of the users here who's local to me/us (Toronto).

Anyway; for those who believe that Vai's still getting lots of flutter with the Backstops in there, look more closely - he pretty much has to manually jiggle the arm, and usually with it turned toward the back (to use the mass of the bridge out that way as an assist) to create a very subdued version of his previous recorded flutters. Blue Powder (I have that floppy record tucked away =]) comes to mind... near the end.

Hopefully you've sorted out whether you like the unit or not (I think, not) at this point, and didn't go through too much invasive tinkering with your VWH in order to come to that conclusion...
=]
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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-29-2004, 03:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
...he pretty much has to manually jiggle the arm, and usually with it turned toward the back (to use the mass of the bridge out that way as an assist)...
i thought that's the only way to get intense flutters. i mean, that's how i used to get pretty heavy flutters that i couldnt get with the arm turned toward the neck.

anyway, i agree that it's not worth tinkering too much around your guitar just for the Backstop.
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-29-2004, 01:25 PM
 
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I don't know if anyone's discussed it yet, but there is an alternate way to set the backstop so that it simply tightens the overall movement of the trem, rather than acting as a "zero return" device. You set the white bushings much farther past the "zero" point so that on the way down, they are actually assisting the dive. But that's compensated for by the increased trem spring tension. That way is usually enough to keep string bends in tune, but not to save you if you break a string. And it does allow some flutter. And it flutters without the clank whether you have the rubber bumper or not. I have my "Eb" tuned shred guitar set like that, because with 9's tuned flat, the trem is pretty fluttery, and goes way out of tune with bends. Plus I'm used to the stiffer trem action of 9-46 or 10-52's tuned to concert pitch.
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-29-2004, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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more backstop trouble! LOL!

The end of the base of my backstop ends about 2mm away from where the wood ends and the tremhole begins. And guess what? The pistons don't extend far enought to touch the bridge. LOL! Serves me right for putting 2 screw holes without checking. With the rubber device in, it BARELY touches the rubber.

I don't want to shift the bridge because its sitting parallel to the body like it should....but I TRIED it...

and I'm still getting clank when I flutter, and the middle springs is still hitting the backstop
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-30-2004, 05:59 AM
 
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why dont you shift the Backstop backward (i.e. closer to the trem-block)?
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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 02:54 PM
 
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Re: Installing an ibanez backstop

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuno View Post
no need to route anything on your guitar body, you just have to drill two little holes for the mounting screws. you have to pull out the center trem-spring to fasten the backstop in place.
you can use double-tape to paste the rubber pad on the trem-block.

to set it up, you just have to know what string(s) you break more often.
this is how i set my Backstops:

1.
tune to perfect pitch.

2.
slacken the string(s) that break up more often.

3.
by turning the Backstop' knobs, you want the pistons to push against the trem-block, then go further until you reach the trem-angle in line with the top, and consequently, the tuning.

4.
re-tune the slacken string(s). you'll have to tight the trem-springs a bit more to compensate and reach the balance between strings, trem-springs and Backstop springs.

5.
fine tune.


once you get used, it's a joke. good luck
I have a dump question. So the very first thing is take off the middle spring, then mount the backstop, right? where do you mount it? how far from trem? is the base plate of the backstop touch the trem? I know it is in the middle but I don't how far is it from the trem.
Thanks
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 04:38 PM
 
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Re: Installing an ibanez backstop

Quote:
Originally Posted by vd0ng View Post
I have a dump question. So the very first thing is take off the middle spring, then mount the backstop, right? where do you mount it? how far from trem? is the base plate of the backstop touch the trem? I know it is in the middle but I don't how far is it from the trem.
Thanks

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base plate , claw screws , edge trem , guitar body , ibanez backstop , neck shim , pro edge , pro edge trem , pro edge tremolo , spring cavity , string breakage , trem arm , trem block , trem stability , whammy bars

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