JS100 stripping, is it veneer? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

I have started stripping my JS100 body as it has a crack where the right tremolo anchor and post fit. I start applying heat very lightly and scraping the black paint off and noticed chunks falling off in a few spots where the glossy black paint had hairline cracks in it. Is this a veneer that I have to fill now or is it some thick primer sealer I need to remove still as it is 1/16" thick. I will try to attach photos here now for opinions on whether it is veneer or not.

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1358/012c.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3697/009wpk.jpg
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2166/014fez.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7185/003ofn.jpg
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2326/010nh.jpg
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6447/013afo.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2017/004jx.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3791/006vr.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2081/008fiu.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9681/002eqw.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/198/005wo.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4235/011gl.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2734/007xf.jpg


Is it possible what I am scraping is just a thin colour and the next 1/16" of an inch is part of the base paint? I notice where the chunks are missing there is a nice white colored basswood.


thanks guys I think I have bitten off more than I can chew this time.

Last edited by gtorob; 02-06-2010 at 06:53 PM. Reason: additional info
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 06:43 PM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Why veneer on a thick black non-woodgrain finish? Why not just primer and then the black coat?

This stuff is why I'm scared to strip my UV.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 07:52 PM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

My RG7420 has a veneer on both the front and back which i was completely shocked about, which i found when i stripped it back. I dont really see the point of it on a body that is going to be painted, but it does look a lot better than seeing where the body pieces are joined.

Heres a link to a pic of the veneer on the back of mine, you can see where i have sanded through the veneer under the left horn and a few places along the bottem edge of the body. I did sand the finish down originally, so i was able to see exactly what i was removing and what was under the paint. Just add dots into the spaces in the following link.

http : //i956 photobucket com/albums/ae47/risingforce666/RG7420/11012010254 jpg

IMO it looks like you have gone through a veneer on your guitar, maybe try sanding the other areas where the finish is removed, and see if you can see join lines in the body. Hope that helps man.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodrunk666 View Post
My RG7420 has a veneer on both the front and back which i was completely shocked about, which i found when i stripped it back. I dont really see the point of it on a body that is going to be painted, but it does look a lot better than seeing where the body pieces are joined.

Heres a link to a pic of the veneer on the back of mine, you can see where i have sanded through the veneer under the left horn and a few places along the bottem edge of the body. I did sand the finish down originally, so i was able to see exactly what i was removing and what was under the paint. Just add dots into the spaces in the following link.

http : //i956 photobucket com/albums/ae47/risingforce666/RG7420/11012010254 jpg

IMO it looks like you have gone through a veneer on your guitar, maybe try sanding the other areas where the finish is removed, and see if you can see join lines in the body. Hope that helps man.

The problem is if it is a veneer there are cracks in it that showed through the black paint.

Does anyone here know if the JS100 has a veneer?
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 08:22 PM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

JS / S series guitars are way too curved to veneer, and there wouldn't be any point. I don't see any veneer in the pics either -- just looks like thick sealer.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 09:36 PM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanb View Post
JS / S series guitars are way too curved to veneer, and there wouldn't be any point. I don't see any veneer in the pics either -- just looks like thick sealer.
You'd be surprised at how much a thin veneer can bend, especially when its heated. But I do agree, thats just a sealer coat.
The only reason to put a veneer on a solid colour guitar is to provide a better surface for painting, like the VWH's basswood top/bottom veneers over the alder.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlephil View Post
You'd be surprised at how much a thin veneer can bend, especially when its heated. But I do agree, thats just a sealer coat.
The only reason to put a veneer on a solid colour guitar is to provide a better surface for painting, like the VWH's basswood top/bottom veneers over the alder.
Is it normal for the sealer to be that thick? Weird as the black paint was very thin and came off easy with heat gun. So how do I get the sealer off? just keep going with the heat gun?

thanks again guys.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtorob View Post
Is it normal for the sealer to be that thick? Weird as the black paint was very thin and came off easy with heat gun. So how do I get the sealer off? just keep going with the heat gun?

thanks again guys.

here is a better photo with the areas I am worried about before I continue stripping.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3299/007copyx.jpg
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 04:39 PM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

I still think that just looks like the sealer. The crack at the post looks like it needs some attention, and based on that last pic I would want to get the sealer off the top to see if the red arrows are a crack in the body there or just the sealer. It's most likely polyester, so there aren't a lot of easy choices. Heat may help. Sanding it down is probably the easiest way.

Yes, veneer can be made to bend a lot over curved surfaces. But when it is a compound curve, you quickly run into buckling issues. Sometimes it can still be done, depending on the part. The main surface of a JS could be veneered, but it would be a mess when you got to the edges. Anyway, it doesn't matter here.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 05:37 PM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Even though it is obviously not a veneer, the easiest way for you to convince yourself is to remove the paint all the way around to the back and check for the end of the supposed veneer.

I would suggest that you go to Home Depot and invest in a random orbital sander, some coarse sanding pads and a dust mask with the level of protection you feel comfortable with.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Ok here is an update....JS100 NOT VENEER....used a heat gun and scraped for 90 minutes outside in the -10 degree weather here in Toronto. to get 40% off. It appears under the thin black paint is a thicker polyurethane almost shellac gluey substance....paint in the butt to remove.

http://img190.imageshack.us/i/008info.jpg/
http://img138.imageshack.us/i/005info.jpg/
http://img190.imageshack.us/i/003uo.jpg/
http://img42.imageshack.us/i/006nhu.jpg/
http://img190.imageshack.us/i/007uw.jpg/
http://img190.imageshack.us/i/004dip.jpg/
http://img6.imageshack.us/i/009lb.jpg/

Lots of work still and some gouges to fix....I learned not to be too aggressive with the scraper and let the heat do the work.

Does anyone know the best way for me to fix this crack?
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 07:42 AM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

I'm gonna vote for a two part epoxy-based wood patch/filler. Some people (including some luthiers) use marine epoxy which dries very, very hard -- I've read that it's superior to Bondo and Bondo-like products which are also frequently used. Regular wood filler (the no-mix type) expands and contracts and the patches will eventually show. Also, I'd suggest opening up that crack using a small dremel attachment so that you're able to get enough epoxy in there to seat and adhere properly. That is, instead of a crack, you'd make a groove and fill that.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 11:11 AM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

If it's my guitar I'd be soaking the cracks with thin superglue first. It will soak into the pores and fix the crack permanently. Then follow up with your chosen finishing method.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thumbs up Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratoskier View Post
I'm gonna vote for a two part epoxy-based wood patch/filler. Some people (including some luthiers) use marine epoxy which dries very, very hard -- I've read that it's superior to Bondo and Bondo-like products which are also frequently used. Regular wood filler (the no-mix type) expands and contracts and the patches will eventually show. Also, I'd suggest opening up that crack using a small dremel attachment so that you're able to get enough epoxy in there to seat and adhere properly. That is, instead of a crack, you'd make a groove and fill that.

Great minds think alike...I was thinking about the expansion/contraction being a problem with wood putty. Marine epoxy would have to be strong to survive the bash a boat takes on the water. I have a small bunch of dremel like bits for my drill, they look like something you would use on model cars. If I open the thin crack and fill it with marine epoxy that would be great. What do I do about the larger crack in the Tremolo cavity near the post? Can I fill that with marine epoxy as well?

thanks!
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 11:56 AM
 
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Re: JS100 stripping, is it veneer?

Not to put you into a lurch regarding my previous advice, but... I trust Frank Falbo a great deal and have followed his advice in the past with success. So you might want to try his method first. I've used super glue for very small scratches and dings, but I wasn't sure how deep your cracks went. Frank -- sounds like you don't think he needs to widen the cracks and, if thinned, the super glue will get as deep as necessary, is that correct? I'd still recommend the epoxy stuff for the big wound by the trem, though.

As far as the studs, in your other thread, a poster recommended gluing in a dowel and redrilling. That's a good suggestion -- I've done it both ways: epoxy only then redrill, vs. dowel epoxied in and then redrill. Both have worked well, but with the dowel seated in epoxy there's less chance of leaving a void in the hole that might lead to trouble later.
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