Lion's Claw Question - Jemsite
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Lion's Claw Question

Hi, I was wondering if I have a guitar with a lion's claw trem route, with a Original Floyd Rose, would I have enough room to successfully install an EVH D-Tuna? And be able to do some kind of pull-ups without hitting the body?

Thanks
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 05:43 AM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 06:30 AM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

You shouldn't install a d-tuna on any floyd rose with a recessed route anyway, unless you have a tremol-no, in which case you wouldn't be using the bar anyway while it was tuned that way.

Reason is the D tuna just lowers the tension on that one string. On a floating bridge, that will mean the other strings will all go sharp when you engage it.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 02:07 PM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

Why couldn't you use the bar? You set the tremol-no to dive-only and it's fine for drop-D. Always worked for me.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 06:48 PM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

True, but he specifically said he wnted to do pullups.

Last edited by GuitarBizarre; 01-31-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

I know that a lions claw extends horizontally further away from the trem than a standard recessed route. I also know that you cannot install a d-tuna because of that lack of room horizontally, so i was wondering if a lions claw gave me enough clearance just to install the d-tuna
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

Ok, here.



String lock screws in red. In green, there is more room behind the screw to possibly install a D-tuna. I want to know if there is enough room there.

If anyone reading this has a guitar with a guitar with Lion's Claw rout, could you possibly take some measurements from the end of the string lock screw on the low E saddle to the edge of the rout directly behind it?

Thanks

DownHomeRock
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 08:01 PM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

It doesn't MATTER if there isn't enough room there, your trem is recessed. If you install a D-Tuna, it will send your guitar out of tune EVERY TIME YOU USE IT.


A floating bridge has two forces acting on it. One is the STRING TENSION, that attempts to pull the bridge upwards and forward, as if the trem were doing a divebomb.

The force that counteracts that is SPRING TENSION, from the back of the guitar. This force attempts to pull the trem back and in, as if you were doing a pullup.

When those two forces are balanced, the tremolo stops moving. When correctly set up, this should also mean the tremolo is level.


Now, string tension is achieved by having the guitar in tune, EADGBE.

If you put a D-Tuna on your guitar, then you can still have EADGBE, which is fine. But what happens when you put the guitar into DADGBE? To lower the tuning of that string you have to reduce its tension...which will put the string tension lower while the SPRING tension remains the same. The string you reduced tension on will be lower, but the SPRING tension will pull the other 5 strings SHARP.

Unless you have a blocked tremolo, or you use a Tremol-No to lock the trem temporarily, you CANNOT use a D-Tuna with a floating bridge, it will send it out of tune immediately every single time.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 08:16 PM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

You will be able to do pull-ups to some extent depending on how deep the claw is, trem height, etc, when in standard tuning. If in drop-D you will have to set the trem to dive-only using a tremol-no or similar.

GuitarBizarre, I think you need to calm down a bit. I think the OP understands they can't have the trem full floating when in drop d. They are just asking if they can pull up with a D-Tuna installed.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 09:17 PM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre View Post
It doesn't MATTER if there isn't enough room there, your trem is recessed. If you install a D-Tuna, it will send your guitar out of tune EVERY TIME YOU USE IT.


A floating bridge has two forces acting on it. One is the STRING TENSION, that attempts to pull the bridge upwards and forward, as if the trem were doing a divebomb.

The force that counteracts that is SPRING TENSION, from the back of the guitar. This force attempts to pull the trem back and in, as if you were doing a pullup.

When those two forces are balanced, the tremolo stops moving. When correctly set up, this should also mean the tremolo is level.


Now, string tension is achieved by having the guitar in tune, EADGBE.

If you put a D-Tuna on your guitar, then you can still have EADGBE, which is fine. But what happens when you put the guitar into DADGBE? To lower the tuning of that string you have to reduce its tension...which will put the string tension lower while the SPRING tension remains the same. The string you reduced tension on will be lower, but the SPRING tension will pull the other 5 strings SHARP.

Unless you have a blocked tremolo, or you use a Tremol-No to lock the trem temporarily, you CANNOT use a D-Tuna with a floating bridge, it will send it out of tune immediately every single time.
This is absolutely correct!!! unless you want to completely re-tune every time you use the D-Tuna.....this WON"T work.

If you DO want to re-tune every time.....there's no need for the D-tuna!!
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 09:22 PM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonePhantom View Post
You will be able to do pull-ups to some extent depending on how deep the claw is, trem height, etc, when in standard tuning. If in drop-D you will have to set the trem to dive-only using a tremol-no or similar.

GuitarBizarre, I think you need to calm down a bit. I think the OP understands they can't have the trem full floating when in drop d. They are just asking if they can pull up with a D-Tuna installed.
Your correct too, but why would the OP want to install a D-tuna only to be locked into drop D? He still couldn't use the D-tuna even if the bridge was single locked (dive or pull) It would have to be completely locked for the D-tuna to work.........in which case he get neither dives or pulls.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-31-2012, 09:27 PM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

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Originally Posted by RGTFanatic View Post
Your correct too, but why would the OP want to install a D-tuna only to be locked into drop D? He still couldn't use the D-tuna even if the bridge was single locked (dive or pull) It would have to be completely locked for the D-tuna to work.........in which case he get neither dives or pulls.
No, it wouldn't have to be locked. It could be set up to dive only and use the D-tuna.

That's how the Van Halen guitars are set up. The rub here is, being that the trem is recessed and designed to float, it would most likely have to have the neck shimmed to bring it up out of the body AND use something to block the trem into a dive-only setup.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 01:20 AM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

That's right. I'm not sure what people are missing. Set a floating trem to dive-only and you can set the d-tuna to drop-D. I've got this setup on two of my axes. Works no problems.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

Im sorry guys, i see my mistake here. Guitarbizarre is right. I shoudl have realized this before asking the question. Its simple physics, and Im in a college physics class right now. Yeah i think ill ditch the dtuna idea
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 05:56 PM
 
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Re: Lion's Claw Question

If you had a hipshot tremsetter setup tight and the right gauge strings and routed it out you could possibly get by without it dropping pitch at all and still be able to pull up. Unfortunately this makes the tremolo extremely stiff to use.
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