Locking Trem and 007's? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Locking Trem and 007's?

So,

I have had a neverending LOATHING for being out of tune when playing, for all of my guitar playing life.

I've tried just about EVERY bridge out there-- Floyd Rose, Gibraltar, Vintage Strat Trems, Licensed Floyds, PRS/Mann-Made, Gotoh, 3 Barrel Tele bridges, Wilkies, on and on. Some nearly perfect, but none staying perfectly in tune for more than 2 days tops. (I played CONSTANTLY).

I recently had an Evertune bridge installed on my Strat, because it was advertised as basically never going out of tune.

The bridge lived up to the hype, but ONLY if I use 009 gauge string sets or larger. If I use 009's, no problem with tuning, ever!

However, the problem is that I really need to use 007's because of tendon problems!

So now I am stuck in analysis paralysis.....I want to buy a new 24 fret guitar (like an Ibanez, hint hint!!), and I can either put an Evertune in it, and it will never go out of tune, but it will be really uncomfortable to do bends with 009's, OR, I can get something with an Edge/Lo Pro/ZR trem . These WILL be comfy to do bends on, because I can use 007's on them, but the question is, will these bridges stay in tune with 007's?

Is it asking too much of a locking trem to stay in tune with 007's?

I remember years ago playing on guitars with Floyds using 009's, and they needed to be fine tuned maybe every few days, but weren't a problem at all keeping in tune. I don't do double stops, or any country style licks.

If I go with using 007's on a double locking trem, will I need to fine tune just as often as any other bridge since the strings are so thin?

Most recently, I was using the Frudua tuning method, where after playing big bends and solos, I would dip the bar, and be back in tune. But it's kind of a hassle, that's why I was looking again into locking trems after so many years.

The Evertune would have been perfect for me, but even the creator Cosmos Lyle told my luthier that the bridge isn't ready to handle such light gauge strings and work reliably (yet) from an engineering standpoint. He was truly surprised it didn't work with 007's despite having built a custom low-tension string module for me.

So, if anyone has any experience playing super light strings on a double locking system, please share your experiences with me.

Thanks guys!
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 01:50 AM
 
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Re: Locking Trem and 007's?

I have no experience with using strings that light, but my question is, do you actually use the bar that much? Evertune doesn't have a tremolo system yet, so I'm assuming you don't and if that's the case, maybe look into a locking system that isn't a tremolo. Ibanez has had a couple of models such as the MTM, which have fixed bridge versions of the Edge and Kahler makes a fixed bridge as well. I have no experience with these bridges, but I know Jari Maenpaa of wintersun used the fixed edge on his LACS guitars before swapping to evertune and if the Kahler fixed bridge is as good as the tremolo version, it should be very stable.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 02:21 AM
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Re: Locking Trem and 007's?

I mean no disrespect and only say this an an observation, but have we really reached the point that having to fine tune every few days, or hours, is too much to ask for? Until guitars are made from materials that will not be affected by temperature or humidity fluctuations having to do some minor tuning is just expected, unless you buy a bridge that magically does it for you

Steve tried 7's with the UV's and they just broke, probably in a full pull up, but possibly from big bends, he didn't specify how they broke. I have personally never put a set of 7's on and have only put one set of 8's on in the last 10 years. You get into such light spring tension to balance out 7's, I'm sure they could be made to stay in as close to tune as 8's. I'd wonder if the springs wouldn't be fully closed with 7's.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 02:42 AM
 
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Re: Locking Trem and 007's?

Perhaps we should discuss expectations. If an Evertune bridge with .009's worked in terms of tuning stability, that kind of a standard is going to be hard to beat. A locking tremolo with .007's seems like you are going in the opposite direction. First, my experience with .007's is limited to a hardtail bridge but focuses on tuning. Long story short, I had an 8 string guitar that I wanted to tune low to high: B-E-A-D-G-B-E-A. For the high A I used a .008 gauge D'Addario and after 3 days of slowly tuning it up I hit A=440 and it held for a week. The string never broke, but I took it off so that I could try a D'Addario .007. I broke three .007's rather quickly and never came close to A=440. The point is .007's are not very strong which is never good news when using a floating bridge.

The word "perfect" should never be used when referring to guitars, especially tuning. "The closer you get to perfection, the easier it is to see (or hear) the flaws." You may have perfect pitch or something similar which can be more of a curse than a blessing. Is there any musical instrument that sounds in tune to you?

Ibanez made two bridges in the past called the Fixed Edge III which was on the RG2228GK 8 string guitar, and the Fixed Lo Pro which was on the JS2000CG. They are basically double locking fixed bridge guitars. If you go here: http://www.ibanezrules.com/used.htm
Rich as a used JS2000CG for sale. If there is one guitar out there that has the potential to meet your needs (short of the Evertune), I would say it this guitar. However, I think what you are hearing as "out of tune" is extremely acute because musical instruments all have their unique tuning problems. I would explore that aspect more.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 02:49 AM
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Re: Locking Trem and 007's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formerly Given To Fly View Post
First, my experience with .007's is limited to a hardtail bridge but focuses on tuning. Long story short, I had an 8 string guitar that I wanted to tune low to high: B-E-A-D-G-B-E-A. .
Thanks for waking me up, that's why Steve kept breaking the 7's, tuned to A. Which would be normalish tension. Tuning a 7 to E is still going to leave you floppy though. But that's what you're used to if that's what you need.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 04:04 PM
 
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Re: Locking Trem and 007's?

Rich's comment about the bridge tuning the strings itself made me think of Gibson Robot or Min-ETune guitars. Then it would be a matter of proactively hitting the button once a day or so to ensure that it is in tune. Just a thought
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 04:25 PM
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Re: Locking Trem and 007's?

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Originally Posted by speedyone View Post
However, the problem is that I really need to use 007's because of tendon problems!
Food for thought. I know you want a 24-fret double-locker but you might want to think bigger picture...

Maybe consider a fixed-bridge 24.75" scale (or shorter) guitar with 007, 008 or a hybrid set. I'm confident you can live without the trem for a while.

Maybe this change will remedy some of your "tendon problems" over time and let you play 009 on the Strat (detune?) less frequently too later on.

Good luck.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 11:33 PM
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Re: Locking Trem and 007's?

I second the JS2000 vote. I don't think I've encountered a guitar that stay in tune better once tuned and fine tuned, but like Rich said, temperature and humidity fluctuations mean that if you come back to it the next day you may have to fine tune again, staying in tune means you could play a live show on it and it stay in tune, not that you leave it for a month and it's still dead 100% in tune.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 02:12 AM
 
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Re: Locking Trem and 007's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jemsite View Post
Food for thought. I know you want a 24-fret double-locker but you might want to think bigger picture...

Maybe consider a fixed-bridge 24.75" scale (or shorter) guitar with 007, 008 or a hybrid set. I'm confident you can live without the trem for a while.

Maybe this change will remedy some of your "tendon problems" over time and let you play 009 on the Strat (detune?) less frequently too later on.

Good luck.
Shorter scale is good idea, shorter scale - less tension.

Btw, Brian May guitar is 24'' scale (610mm), 24 frets, he used to use 008, has non locking tremolo, but we all know his playing is in tune, and he is using his tremolo.

Last edited by peromucho7; 08-09-2017 at 04:15 AM.
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