need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570 - Jemsite
Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods Guitar workbench discussion such as setup, repairs, mods, installing new parts and more.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-27-2015, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 11
need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570. UPDATE:considering warmoth/musikraft

Hello, I've visited this site and forums for about 12 years but I am just joining now. I own an RG7620 and RG421 as well as a bunch of other guitars (fenders, gibsons, frankenstrat). I'm really obsessed with that Guthrie Govan charvel ever since it came out. The problem is that it costs $3600. While i don't think its stupid to spend that much money on one guitar I have trouble justifying it right now when I already have 10 other guitars. So I'm looking to try an easy first custom build and do a much cheaper version of a Guthrie style guitar from RG parts. As much as play my strat, tele, ES-335, the one that I play the most, and has always been my fav, has been my 7620. So that's why I want to build this guitar using RG parts. The Guthrie Guitar has HSH configuration and direct mount pickups. I would like get a 1570 body since that matches that configuration and remove the paint and do an oil finish similar to my 421 for that natural look. I have a Blaze/Norton 7 in my 7620 so I wanted to try Tone Zone for the bridge and not sure about neck and single coil yet. Need some recommendations on that. I'm looking for a more mid range focused tone which is why I want the tone zone. I also want to keep the edge pro bridge on the 1570 (will do locking stud mod) but want to skip the locking nut and just do locking tuners. I'm not a heavy trem abuser but have always thought my Lo-Pro on my 7620 was the most comfortable trem I've ever used. So I'm looking to get a wizard II or III neck with the standard nut. I may have to shim the the bridge saddles slightly to match the 430 radius of the EP trem. Wizard II and III's are 400m. I would like to get a 430 radius neck with standard nut but those seem hard to find and/or much more expensive. The cheapest way I figure is to get everything separately and I'm hoping to build the guitar for around $800. I know I could spend much more than that but if I spend more than $1000 I really should be just saving that towards getting the real Guthrie guitar. Anyways, just wanted to see if anyone had any advice on what I'm trying to do and if there is anything I should do differently to do this cheaper or easier. I'll include a pic of what my guitar might look like from the V-RG builder (I couldn't get it to have the trem but not the locking nut). Thanks!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Guthrie Style RG.jpg (17.6 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by Wisco84; 03-08-2015 at 06:07 PM.
Wisco84 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 990
Reviews: 13
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

I think the issue is psychological here. You are GASing for the Charvel Guthrie... and trying to defeat this GAS by customizing an RG. This might work for a couple days, but you'll ultimately back to thinking about the Charvel.

I agree that the Charvel is overpriced. My suggestion is to do what Guthrie himself did... customize a Stratocaster (not an RG). Maybe selling some gear to fund it... but start with the right stuff, you want a strat.
Rachmaninoff is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2015, 01:50 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,604
Reviews: 10
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

I agree with Rachman - I would start with a Strat body...taking a painted guitar and removing the paint is risky because some of those guitar bodies are painted for a reason. A buddy of mine stripped a painted guitar and found a piece of wood underneath that was not aesthetically pleasing. Why don't you buy a nice unfinished Strat body from Warmoth and start building from there? Warmoth makes beautiful high quality necks and bodies and if you browse the showcase you can find some good deals. If you went the Warmoth route you could build a gorgeous high quality instrument that is consistent with what you are looking for and it would probably cost you less than 1/3 of what the Guthrie Charvel costs. my $.02. Have you browsed the Warmoth site before?
doriangrey is offline  
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-28-2015, 07:45 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 9,232
Reviews: 120
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

If you want to build a Charvel like Govan's without the cost go and check out Musikraft. They make "proper" Charvel spec-ed necks and bodys. You can get a roasted maple neck if you want, oil the body, choose the sort of bridge you want and come out with a comparable guitar for probably about a 1/3 of the price. I built a sweet Charvel San Dimas style guitar last year and it cost me all up around $1K. Sounds and plays amazing.
LonePhantom is online  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-02-2015, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 11
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

Thanks for all the replies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachmaninoff View Post
I think the issue is psychological here. You are GASing for the Charvel Guthrie... and trying to defeat this GAS by customizing an RG. This might work for a couple days, but you'll ultimately back to thinking about the Charvel.

I agree that the Charvel is overpriced. My suggestion is to do what Guthrie himself did... customize a Stratocaster (not an RG). Maybe selling some gear to fund it... but start with the right stuff, you want a strat.
Yeah, I know that the GAS has got me pretty bad but I also was going to do this build under the premise that I would most likely still get the Guthrie Charvel a couple years down the line. Wanted to maybe see what changes Guthrie/Charvel make to the guitar in the next few years and also maybe some used ones would start to become available. I've also never had a guitar with a floating trem but no locking nut and also of all the guitars I own none have a HSH configuration. I wanted to do the custom build to kind of see how I liked those features before I put a lot of money into a guitar that had them. I also always liked the idea of building a custom RG because I really like Ibanez guitars so I thought this would be kind of an easy project to do as my first build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doriangrey View Post
I agree with Rachman - I would start with a Strat body...taking a painted guitar and removing the paint is risky because some of those guitar bodies are painted for a reason. A buddy of mine stripped a painted guitar and found a piece of wood underneath that was not aesthetically pleasing. Why don't you buy a nice unfinished Strat body from Warmoth and start building from there? Warmoth makes beautiful high quality necks and bodies and if you browse the showcase you can find some good deals. If you went the Warmoth route you could build a gorgeous high quality instrument that is consistent with what you are looking for and it would probably cost you less than 1/3 of what the Guthrie Charvel costs. my $.02. Have you browsed the Warmoth site before?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LonePhantom View Post
If you want to build a Charvel like Govan's without the cost go and check out Musikraft. They make "proper" Charvel spec-ed necks and bodys. You can get a roasted maple neck if you want, oil the body, choose the sort of bridge you want and come out with a comparable guitar for probably about a 1/3 of the price. I built a sweet Charvel San Dimas style guitar last year and it cost me all up around $1K. Sounds and plays amazing.
I have checked out Warmoth before. Looks like I could get an unfinished body to the specs I would like for about $320. That's too bad. The thing I really like about the RG has always been AANJ. Even though I love my start and tele never was crazy about the squared off heel with the plate. Even the Warmoth countoured heel is still a squared edge as opposed to rounded like the RG. I did check out Musikraft too. Thanks for the heads up on them, haven't heard of them before. I like that I could get a roasted neck and body from them but I'm at the same issue with the heel contour as with Warmoth. Maybe I could just sand the contour to be more like the RG heel. I notice the

My BIGGEST question mark though if I were to go the non RG route is WHAT TREM WOULD I GET. I've always heard good things about gotoh trems. What I love most about the ibanez trems is the way the arm just goes right into the arm holder without screwing it in and I love the bushings that control the torque. I HATED the trem arm cap that was on a carvin floyd that I had. Every time you used the trem pretty heavy you had to re-tighten the cap mid song. I also have an original Floyd Rose on my Frankenstrat and that one stays longer when you tighten it but you need a wrench to hold the nut from the backside every time you tighten it, SO HOW DO GOTOH TREM ARMS ATTACH? I see they don't have a cap or bushings so how is the arm torque controlled?
Wisco84 is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-03-2015, 08:56 AM
 
stratoskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 917
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

Here are a couple of thoughts:

A square, strat-style (or original square RG, RT, etc) heel can be easily rounded by relocating the corner neck screw and reshaping the heel to approximate an AANJ. I've done this to 5-6 guitars. Here are a couple of RTs I did this to:





Both of those were originally square-heel with a neck plate.

If you're going for a Govan style guitar, you should consider the non-fine tuner Floyds like those on his Charvel sig model. I rounded up several of the original ones and am really liking them. The advantages of locking saddles and NO locking nut (but with locking tuners) are huge. And most importantly, Floyd Rose is now manufacturing these trems again. Check their Facebook page (scroll down the page a little to find this trem):

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialFloydRose

This is good because once GG starting using them, the price of the old ones started creeping up on the used market.
stratoskier is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2015, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 11
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratoskier View Post
Here are a couple of thoughts:

A square, strat-style (or original square RG, RT, etc) heel can be easily rounded by relocating the corner neck screw and reshaping the heel to approximate an AANJ. I've done this to 5-6 guitars. Here are a couple of RTs I did this to:



Both of those were originally square-heel with a neck plate.

If you're going for a Govan style guitar, you should consider the non-fine tuner Floyds like those on his Charvel sig model. I rounded up several of the original ones and am really liking them. The advantages of locking saddles and NO locking nut (but with locking tuners) are huge. And most importantly, Floyd Rose is now manufacturing these trems again. Check their Facebook page (scroll down the page a little to find this trem):


This is good because once GG starting using them, the price of the old ones started creeping up on the used market.
Wow those heel contour's you did look great! So I am now seriously considering going the Warmoth/Musikraft route after seeing you can get those non fine tuner floyds. I'm now looking at the push-in style arm replacement that Floyd Rose is selling. I'm going to get one for my frankenstrat which has an original floyd with fine tuners and drop it in. If it feels and works as good as the ibanez trem arm I think I will be fine going with the original floyd. Looks like I can get the exact body and neck like the Guthrie Charvel from Musikraft or Warmoth for anywhere from 700-1000 all together. Then I just need to get hardware and electronics and I can basically build a Guthrie Charvel for less than half the price of the Charvel. Only difference would be pickups would be different than his and I would have 6100 Jumbo Stainless Steel frets as opposed to the EXtra jumbo frets guthrie's has. Otherwise I can match everything else. I can even get roasted neck from either company and Musikraft does roasted bodies too. I heard Guthrie's guitar actually has a pretty fat neck which is something I don't like, so this way I can get a D shaped neck similar to the ibanez neck shape. Maybe I can talk to Musikraft to see if they can do a heel contour similar to the AANJ. If not I can just plan on doing it myself because I would get the body unfinished because I was going to do an oil finish at the end.
Wisco84 is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2015, 10:55 AM
 
stratoskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 917
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

One other thing you'll need to think about is the routing for the Floyd. If you plan on recessed routing (which is normal for Floyds) and using the non-fine tuner Floyd, you probably don't want the rear route to be as long as for a regular Floyd. The non-fine tuner version is quite a bit shorter than a regular Floyd or Edge due to the absence of the fine tuners. Take a look at the route beneath the trem on Guthrie's guitar and you'll see what I mean. If you put the no-tuner trem on a guitar with the regular recessed route, there will be a big cavity visible behind the trem which can look kind of weird.

I don't know if Warmoth or Musikraft has a template and/or option for the no-tuner trems, but you might want to check. I think with Warmoth, you can send them the trem and they'll custom route to fit it.
stratoskier is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2015, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 11
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratoskier View Post
One other thing you'll need to think about is the routing for the Floyd. If you plan on recessed routing (which is normal for Floyds) and using the non-fine tuner Floyd, you probably don't want the rear route to be as long as for a regular Floyd. The non-fine tuner version is quite a bit shorter than a regular Floyd or Edge due to the absence of the fine tuners. Take a look at the route beneath the trem on Guthrie's guitar and you'll see what I mean. If you put the no-tuner trem on a guitar with the regular recessed route, there will be a big cavity visible behind the trem which can look kind of weird.

I don't know if Warmoth or Musikraft has a template and/or option for the no-tuner trems, but you might want to check. I think with Warmoth, you can send them the trem and they'll custom route to fit it.
Yes that was another thing I needed to figure out. I need to call Musikraft to see if they offer the shorter recessed routing. I know that Post spacing is the same as the OFR but yeah definitely don't want that recessed cavity being too big. I know Warmoth offers the Schaller floyd route which has a shorter recess and this would make the amount of the recess that's visible only about 10mm past the non fine tuner trem. I could probably live with that. I just really want to go the Musikraft route cause they are the only ones that offer the roasted body. I'll have to see what they say over the phone.

Also another question. What is the benefit of the Graphite Re-enforcement rods. The GG model has them and Musikraft offers them. I thought Roasting the neck was enough to keep it from moving. Do the rods just keep it even more stable so you never have to change truss adjustment once you've got it set where you like it?
Wisco84 is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2015, 04:04 PM
 
stratoskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 917
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

Yeah, that's what I read -- improved stability. Of course, Govan is touring all the time and I presume that all the temperature/humidity changes aggravated the neck problems for him. Most of us don't demand that much from our gear.

I think there was some discussion about the rods in one of the GG Charvel threads in the Huge Racks Inc forum.
stratoskier is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-06-2015, 06:12 PM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,768
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

You're never going to make an RG1570 like a Guthrie guitar. I'd go Warmoth and then find someone to do a custom AANJ for you. It shouldn't be that hard.
Takin' a Ride is offline  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-08-2015, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 11
Re: need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570

I contacted Floyd Rose about the dimensions of the non fine tuner floyd because they don't list it on their website. They said they would contact the manufacturer and email me back. Stratoskier do you think you could take 2 measurements for me since you said you had some of the non fine tuner floyds. I'll pm a pic, could you just measure the 2 things I have in the red square. It's basically the base plate length and the length to the back of the string clamp screw.

So I've come to my next bump in the road to figure out. I imagine I'll have more of these but that's why I'm trying to figure everything out before I buy any parts. From what I see Musikraft does not offer bodies compatible with 24 fret necks. I know the 24 fret extension hangs over the standard neck pocket shape but they don't offer to route the neck pickup further back so the fret board wont run over the pickup. They also don't have a body with a deeper cutaway for access to the higher frets. Warmoth can do the pickup route to allow for 24 frets and they have the soloist body shape which has deeper cutaways on each side of the neck for higher fret access. I'm going to call Musikraft just to ask them. I have nothing against Warmoth and it's cheaper but I REALLY want to try the roasted body and Musikraft is the only company that can do that I know of so far. This is probably a stupid question but I'd imagine they roast the wood first and then cut the body shape from that right? I'm assuming they can't roast the body once it's already cut and routed? I also wonder since I would most likely be reshaping the heel to match the AANJ shape, how hard would it be to take off more of the wood in the cutaways if I got the Musikraft 21 fret body. Maybe they could route just the bridge pickup and I could route the neck pickup cavity. That seems pretty hard though.
Wisco84 is offline  
Reply

Tags
1570 , build , custom , guthrie govan , musikraft

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jemsite forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address

IMPORTANT: You will be required to activate your account so please ensure that your email address is correct.

If you do not receive your activation check your spam folder before using the CONTACT US form (at the bottom right of each page).



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
need advice on 1st build, Guthrie style RG 1570 Wisco84 Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods 0 02-26-2015 02:32 PM
Roswell Rhoads style 7 Fan Build. Zoot Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods 30 08-01-2014 12:15 PM
New JS style bodies build andyt Ibanez JEM, UV, JS & Other Signature Models 36 05-26-2014 11:32 PM
FS (EU): Suhr Modern (Guthrie Govan style) BillE Classified Ads: Guitars and Gear 7 07-04-2012 08:53 AM
New build Sabre style andyt All Other Guitars (including Prestige) 20 11-24-2007 01:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome