Need Insight for Swirl Finish - Jemsite
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-25-2010, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 80
Need Insight for Swirl Finish

I've decided this time to try a swirl finish on my next Ibanez project. From reading the numerous other questions about swirls, I've come up with a few questions here in the planning stages -

1. Is Humbrol the general consensus for best paint to swirl with, or are there "better" enamels that you've found success with?
2. How much do the different paints need thinned? Is there a good rule of thumb?
3. Gloss or matte paint?
4. I've not used enamels before - should the base coat also be oil based, or can an acrylic (Auto Air, etc.) be sprayed as a base?
5. I've always used 2 part auto clear (Urethane -"Xtreme KlearKote" w/Medium Hardener) for finishing. Will this work OK over the enamel swirl? Anyone have experience with urethane clear over enamels?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-25-2010, 02:15 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

Quote:
Originally Posted by XcitR View Post
I've decided this time to try a swirl finish on my next Ibanez project. From reading the numerous other questions about swirls, I've come up with a few questions here in the planning stages -

1. Is Humbrol the general consensus for best paint to swirl with, or are there "better" enamels that you've found success with?
2. How much do the different paints need thinned? Is there a good rule of thumb?
3. Gloss or matte paint?
4. I've not used enamels before - should the base coat also be oil based, or can an acrylic (Auto Air, etc.) be sprayed as a base?
5. I've always used 2 part auto clear (Urethane -"Xtreme KlearKote" w/Medium Hardener) for finishing. Will this work OK over the enamel swirl? Anyone have experience with urethane clear over enamels?

Thanks!

Ive had good results with Model Master and Boyd brand enamels. Each is different so thinning varies. I believe most of these are gloss to begin with.

I always use a 2 part polyurethane for clean with no issues.

Base coat doesnt matter so much. I prefer to use an vintage white base thats been sanded flat.



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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-25-2010, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Florence, SC
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

Very Nice Swirl finishes! For sanding the base coat, are you sanding with a 400-600 grit for smoothness, or are you just roughing the surface? Does the enamel adhere better to a super smooth or semi smooth surface?

About how much enamel of each color did you use on the green swirl?

Again, love the swirl finishes!
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 07:40 PM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

The base coat is sanded only if it is rough. Typically i use flat enamel for the base and sand if needed.

The rainforest swirl had equal amounts of 2 greens and half the amount of brown. Not sure of a measurement since they are just poured in. Maybe 1/8th oz?? The trick is to test pour your paint. The color that speads fast should go in first, and so on. When you get a swirl on top of the water to look good, then try a body.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-14-2010, 03:01 PM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

I am in the early test stages of swirling. I have had a fair bit of experience with different paints as I once worked in the motor trade for about 12 years. I have done a few test boards with some ply wood boards primed white. The thing I am struggling with the is the borax. Im using borax substitute at the moment, tried all sorts of different weights and measures but cant seem to get the paint spreading as well as I think it should. so next week Im gonna buy some real borax off the net. It may not have much difference but I wont know until I try. DGBAKER33 I really like your swirls, I remember your banana swirl that was cool. Keep up the good work.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

So I started testing the Humbrol Paints last night. Here's my results:

The first seems like I had WAY too much paint.
The second (dipped in same mix) looks better, and the third is a bit thin.

I didn't thin the paints at all, and used 3 colors (Black, Emerald Green and a really hot Signal Green) The Signal green doesn't even show. I'm thinking that my base color may be too dark, so I think I'll try some more on a lighter green. Water temp was a bit cold, and I'm using 1tsp Borax per gallon of water.


Thoughts or suggestions?
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

cool!! I been to an auotmotor paint supplier that I used to deal with years ago, I want the more hotter colours, neon greens , pinks, purples and so on.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 05:09 PM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

Those swirls aren't bad at all! Good work.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-17-2010, 06:02 PM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

Quote:
Originally Posted by XcitR View Post
So I started testing the Humbrol Paints last night. Here's my results:
The first seems like I had WAY too much paint.
The second (dipped in same mix) looks better, and the third is a bit thin.

I didn't thin the paints at all, and used 3 colors (Black, Emerald Green and a really hot Signal Green) The Signal green doesn't even show. I'm thinking that my base color may be too dark, so I think I'll try some more on a lighter green. Water temp was a bit cold, and I'm using 1tsp Borax per gallon of water.

Thoughts or suggestions?
Posted my thoughts over on project guitar...should have posted them here...more active feedback on the swirls...here is what I posted over there:

"Man I wish I had the time to get back into the testing...soon I hope. I have basically all the Humbrol paints sitting and waiting, as well as a bunch of others, that I have a theory on as what ATD used...I will confirm if they work...and explain my theory and how I came up with it...if it works. Otherwise it will be a waste of time!

Suggestion on the dips...the first one is quite runny...the 2nd looks great. You said you dipped it in the same batch as what the first one was dipped in. I would try 2 tests...maybe 3
1. Use the same amount of paint as you did on the first one, but wait longer to dip, allow the paint to set a little on the surface first. If that doesn't work
2. Use less paint, and still allow more time for the paint to float before dipping.
3. And if that still doesn't work, try less paint, and a happy medium of time in between when you did the first and the 2nd.

That's where I would go next - but what do I know? I'm still just testing as well!

Post your results!"

Also, I have a thread over here I started with some of my trial and errors...might help figure some out too...

http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f18/sw...hem-94998.html
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-22-2010, 03:34 PM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish



did this one today. green, orange, black and purple. nin some green and black ones that came out really well. Im gonna take them to my paint man and get him to spray a kwik clear over them to make sure the paint does not react. fingers crossed!!! I got an RG550 that my friend wants me to do for him. its gonna take some stripping as its had more paint than a council house back door!
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-24-2010, 08:29 AM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyboy mills View Post


did this one today. green, orange, black and purple. nin some green and black ones that came out really well. Im gonna take them to my paint man and get him to spray a kwik clear over them to make sure the paint does not react. fingers crossed!!! I got an RG550 that my friend wants me to do for him. its gonna take some stripping as its had more paint than a council house back door!
looks great! The only thing i would suggest is it looks like there is 2 greens? The neon green looks perfect, the other green that covers most of the canvas, is too aggressive. Maybe add that one last if you plan i keeping it, or eliminate it all together.

I agree with the above post that if the paint is running when you pull it out, you need to let it set up in the water longer, or use a little less.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-24-2010, 08:38 AM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

Quote:
Originally Posted by XcitR View Post
So I started testing the Humbrol Paints last night. Here's my results:

The first seems like I had WAY too much paint.
The second (dipped in same mix) looks better, and the third is a bit thin.

I didn't thin the paints at all, and used 3 colors (Black, Emerald Green and a really hot Signal Green) The Signal green doesn't even show. I'm thinking that my base color may be too dark, so I think I'll try some more on a lighter green. Water temp was a bit cold, and I'm using 1tsp Borax per gallon of water.


Thoughts or suggestions?
Those look great. I always use a white base. The colors are more true. I do see alot of guys going GMCs with a green base, with good results.

I would also agree that the paint needs a little longer to set up. That can cause the running, or having too much of one color. That is one of the tricky parts to master. Too long and it hardens, too short and it runs. Keep practicing!

One more thing, if you see black(in this case) "dots" or paint that hasnt been mixed well into the colors, it is thicker and can run easily.

Here is a GMC i did with a white base...

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-24-2010, 12:17 PM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

Thanks dgbaker33 for your kind comments, its very helpfull of you to give us advise. Today I got a test board back from my clear guy, The 2 pack clear had reacted with the gloss black, so Im going to try matt black. The base coat I have used is a green acrilic paint and was fine, it did not react at all. I may try using a white base in the future, at the moment its just trial and error. The main thing is Im having fun doing it. Dgbaker33 If in the future my swirls are half as good as yours I will be a happy man. Keep up the good work and once again thanks for the advice, Im very grateful to you.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-24-2010, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

dgbaker33, did you dip your GMC vertically or horizontally? What differences are there in the pattern, and any benefits of one over the other? Looks awesome, BTW!
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-24-2010, 01:53 PM
 
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Re: Need Insight for Swirl Finish

Quote:
Originally Posted by XcitR View Post
dgbaker33, did you dip your GMC vertically or horizontally? What differences are there in the pattern, and any benefits of one over the other? Looks awesome, BTW!
Thanks! Im always willing to help guys that are attempting the process. Not the guys who have never tried and want to know all the answers. It takes alot of practice!!

Vertically. You can achieve the horizontal look if you go back and forth across the paint. I think all are submerged vertically since the mock neck would not able you to go in horizontally?

If the paint has had time to "set up" a bit, it makes the horizontal motion easier to achieve. And submerging slowly.
Here is a GMC pic with some serious side to side motion...


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