Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

I came across this really interesting article about adjusting nut heights IBANEZ RULES!! tech - setup .

It corresponds to my impression, that Ibanez nuts seem a bit high.

However, the article dates from 2000, revised 2009. So the obvious question is whether this is still an issue.

Also, it refers to necks where the locking nuts are bolted from the back of the neck. Most of the RGs I've seen, bolt from the front (ie self-tapping screws into the wood). Do these RGs still use shims ? Does the information still apply ?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 10:09 AM
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

You want to get the nut height right. what always applies is that the nut - if too high or low - will never allow optimum setup. In addition it won't allow proper intonation of fretted notes (F will pull seriously sharp vs open E due to excessive string movement required - but that also gets into compensated tuning sweetener convo).
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

Yep, agreeing with the principles.

Looking for a few details. Do modern RGs (locking nut bolts from front) still have shims ?

Etc, etc...
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 03:24 PM
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

Setup from the factory in all areas is always an issue. These guitars sit in containers for sometimes months so if there was any setup at the factory little is left. Combine that with no factory setup is ever dialed in. I have had nuts both too high and too low, there is no hard rule, every guitar must be dealt with as a single entity in all the bugs or flaws it may have.

The 2009 update was to probably remove the information that from 2000-2009 Fujigen never cut the nut rout deep enough and to correct it required fixing the rout or taking height off the nut. I was going to write up another page and link them but obviously I never got that far. Today very rarely do you find a Japanese locking nut or rout needs to be worked, but from the last ones I handled Premiums were still a bad problem and one small part of the reasons I just quit handling non signature Premiums.

Fixed bridge nuts are usually not cut deep enough, or can be irregular with high and too low slots
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Last edited by Rich; 03-26-2018 at 09:09 PM.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 04:16 PM
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

I've read this before but I've always wondered about the wisdom of having the string height at the first fret as low as possible without buzzing. Is there a technical reason for that or is it just preference?

I've found that when I set up guitars like that, it feels weird playing those notes since there's no give to the string before you contact the fret.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 04:21 PM
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

If you want more resistance raise it all you like, but as mentioned above, it throws the intonation of any notes close to the nut sharp. You may not care or notice but that is the consequence of having the nut too high, besides the extra string resistance most would not prefer.

That said, it was written many years ago when I set nuts as low as possible, which I no longer do. I set them close to as low as possible but leave them a little cleaner playing [about .1mm higher bass and treble], at the same time I lowered the overall action at the bridge significantly from when those pages were written.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 08:19 PM
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

I don't set it high by any means. I'll need to compare one of my setups to one of yours. I just remember setting one as low as I could get it without buzzing and I thought it felt weird.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 08:58 PM
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How did it sound though? Maybe ignore the feel (you will get used to it) and measure/hear how sharp fretted F, F#, G are with a high nut. Insert a toothpick bit under the low-e string at the nut for a quick test.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 03:37 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

The tuning issue was what I noticed.

In some cases, I've ended up tuning at the 5th fret; and setting the intonation [saddle], so the 12th fret is correct. Which seems to have worked better.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 03:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

Back to one of my original questions, do modern [trem; nut bolts from front, into neck] RGs have shims ?
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 08:03 AM
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

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Originally Posted by jemsite View Post
How did it sound though? Maybe ignore the feel (you will get used to it) and measure/hear how sharp fretted F, F#, G are with a high nut. Insert a toothpick bit under the low-e string at the nut for a quick test.
I think Rich and I are on the same page here. I'm not talking crazy nut height like something you'd pick up at a Guitar Center. I'm talking the difference between 0.1 mm and 0.2 mm. And let's get honest here, the tuning can go out for any number of reasons such as not holding the guitar perfectly perpendicular to the ground. We could also get into the the wisdom of jumbo frets. I'm not noticing anything off with my setups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scallybert View Post
Back to one of my original questions, do modern [trem; nut bolts from front, into neck] RGs have shims ?
Yes, they should.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

While I'm sure there's no substitute for skill and experience; would the following be a reasonable metric to get into the right ball park ?

Hold the E6 string at the 3rd fret - so it's sitting on the nut & 2nd fret, but running over the 1st fret; then look at the clearance over the 1st fret.

[This is a roughly similar test to what the Ibanez manual says for adjusting the truss rod.]

If so, what sort of clearance over the 1st fret ?
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 09:18 AM
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

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Originally Posted by scallybert View Post
While I'm sure there's no substitute for skill and experience; would the following be a reasonable metric to get into the right ball park ?

Hold the E6 string at the 3rd fret - so it's sitting on the nut & 2nd fret, but running over the 1st fret; then look at the clearance over the 1st fret.

[This is a roughly similar test to what the Ibanez manual says for adjusting the truss rod.]

If so, what sort of clearance over the 1st fret ?

I just read an article on this, as a couple of my guitars need the nut height lowered... Here is the specs I read (for what it's worth):


"One by one, fret the strings at the third fret or place a capo over all of the strings at this position. Each string should have an extremely small amount of clearance between the bottom of the string and the crown of the first fret. This can be carefully observed through lightly tapping the string at the first fret with a finger and/or measuring using engineer's feeler gauges. Ideally you should have at least .002"/0,05mm of clearance under the thinnest strings and .005"/0,13mm under the heavier wound strings. Generally speaking, as long as the strings are not contacting the first fret the clearance is fine. If this measurement is close or dead on, move on to the next string. You may should jot down the clearances as you move across the fretboard to see the nut slot heights in relation to the fretboard as you progress, especially if you have a locking nut."


Solidbody Setup III - Nut height check and adjustment - Instrument Setup - ProjectGuitar.com
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 02:40 PM
 
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

So it turns out that I'm actually setting less clearance at the first fret than Rich is...huh.

That method for measuring clearance is not how I do it. I capo at the first fret and set the relief of the neck. Doing it this way takes the nut height out of the equation. Then I set the clearance at the first fret, then finally tweak the action at the last fret (changing nut height seems to affect this slightly).
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 08:32 PM
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Re: Nut Height - Ibanez Rules article; still an issue ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takin' a Ride View Post
So it turns out that I'm actually setting less clearance at the first fret than Rich is...huh.

That method for measuring clearance is not how I do it. I capo at the first fret and set the relief of the neck. Doing it this way takes the nut height out of the equation. Then I set the clearance at the first fret, then finally tweak the action at the last fret (changing nut height seems to affect this slightly).
You've probably adjusted everything else to your liking and if you added any relief it would increase first fret action.
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