pickup mounting.. - Jemsite
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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pickup mounting..

is there any difference between humbucker that attached to body(like in the RG3120) or humbucker attached to the guitar with pickup rings(like the RG570)?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 12:01 PM
 
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the only difference on body mounted humbuckers are they are screwed into the body, the ones with pickup rings go through the pickup rings and don't go through the body
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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that's right , but my question was why? why ibanez do that?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 01:07 PM
 
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Depends on what look you want for the guitar. if its more industrial lookin like the 570 you might want pup rings to give a clean line between the pickup and body. Whereas on more clean "arty" guitars you might want it to leave it plain and mount to the body.
Theres is also some tonal difference between direct mount and ring mounted pickups...but ill let someone else explain that
-better shred than dead-ANDY
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 03:07 PM
 
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ITs in some circles known as The EVH" mod. Eddie van halen beleived he got a woodier tone when the pickups were bolted to the wood of the guitar. I think in some cases it looks alot cleaner, but just depends on how good the routing on your particular guitar is. Personally I love it. SOme on the other hand prefer pickups mounted on a pickguard. I think its true that the wood does vibrate and the way the pickups are mounted does affect tone, but how much is really a matter of opinion
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 03:44 PM
 
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I knew someone would rise to the challenge...i just got bored of typing lol
-better shred than dead-ANDY
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 04:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammy
I knew someone would rise to the challenge...i just got bored of typing lol
-better shred than dead-ANDY
its been interesting to see the *three month trend on this foruM* It seems like we rehash the same stuff over and over again. But I get tired of typing it again myself you know .
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 04:20 PM
 
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When analyzing to what degree something affects your plugged in tone, remember that the pickup's magnetic field is responding to vibrations in the string, and other metalic vibrations. It will pick up trem springs vibrating and if you knock on it, it can get a ring from a metal mounting ring or the mounting screws and springs. But that's it. You can't shout into a pickup, or pass reference tones through the wood and expect the pickup to hear it. The strings respond to all sorts of minutia, but pickups are magnetic beasts. I won't say that there is NO sonic difference, but I will say that there is no scientific basis for it, nor do I myself hear any difference. And I have done comparisons on the same guitars.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 04:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankfalbo
When analyzing to what degree something affects your plugged in tone, remember that the pickup's magnetic field is responding to vibrations in the string, and other metalic vibrations. It will pick up trem springs vibrating and if you knock on it, it can get a ring from a metal mounting ring or the mounting screws and springs. But that's it. You can't shout into a pickup, or pass reference tones through the wood and expect the pickup to hear it. The strings respond to all sorts of minutia, but pickups are magnetic beasts. I won't say that there is NO sonic difference, but I will say that there is no scientific basis for it, nor do I myself hear any difference. And I have done comparisons on the same guitars.
You *can* shout into pickups as they are mildy microphonic just by nature. The reference tones would come from the fact that if the wood vibrates and the pickup is mounted to it then the pickup will vibrate as well. Its a very true scientific fact .
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-08-2003, 04:37 PM
 
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That's part of the reason I won't take a hard stance on this one. But from everything I've been taught, pickups that respond to acoustic occurrences, are usually doing so because the coil has microphonic qualities, as you mentioned. But a tightly wound, well potted pickup should not. Sometimes you hear some reverb from trem springs or the strings if you shout or make a noise into the pickups, but an epoxy potted active pickup, for example should be less prone to it, as well as an efficiently wound, well potted passive one. Two different pickup manufacturers have corroborated that all things equal, the pickup does not understand how it is mounted. That is to say, it doesn't alter the signal. Theoretically, if the pickup were mounted so loosely that the magnetic disruption could physicaly move or vibrate the pickup sympathetically, there would be a difference. But that would require a suspension mounting like those on condenser mics. The pickup vibrating, in and of itself, would create no sound.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-12-2003, 02:36 AM
 
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Actually, there is a small amount of truth to the whole direct mount concept. This is because the pickups, or anything else touching the guitar for that matter, vibrate sympathetically with the rest of the guitar.

Bear with me, I have been discussing to much physics with friends lately. Let's look at this a different way.

Imagine you and I are in a room. You represent the pickup. I represent the string. I am running around in a circle. You are standing still. The way you visually perceive my position changing in relation to yours is how the pickup "sees" the string passing through it's magnetic field, and how the pickup "sees" the string passing through it's magnetic field is the fundamental mechanic of turning that movement into electricity.

Now, imaging that you are in a swing swinging forwards and backwards while I run in a circle. The way you visually perceive my position is now different than it was when you were standing still. This an example of how the pickup "sees" the string's movement differently when the pickup is vibrating, therefore sends a different electric signal. For the moment use this as an example of the pickups being mounted in a ring.

Next imaging the situation in the previous paragraph, but with you jumping up and down instead of moving forwards and backwards. Now the pickup sees the string in yet another way, because now it is vibrating in a different fashion than before. View this as being direct-mounted.

The main point being made is that if you change the way the pickup vibrates, you change it's relationship with the string's vibration in some fashion. Doing this changes the electric signal it produces, and therefore the amplified sound. The laws of physics back this up.

The important question to ask is this: is the difference audible? This is a bit more difficult.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-12-2003, 11:43 AM
 
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That is a fantastic analogy. That's kind of what I was going for with the suspension mount illustration, but in that case, its the magnetic field disturbance that would physically vibrate the pickup. I think that if the direct mount pickup is spring or foam loaded from the rear, it is not vibrating any differently than being spring loaded from the ring. I mean, let's get real for a moment, are we really expecting a the vibrational variance between the ring and the body to transfer through 1/8" bolts under a few pounds of tension? Vibrations do transfer, but I'm talking about the difference. If there's a physical difference it would be in "solidly" mounting the pickup to the body, by building up the base of the cavity so you have a well torqued connection.

Even then, is it audible? I still say no, but respect the opinion of anyone who feels differently. But remember this, many times, you can take a guitar away from the "know-it-all" player, bring it to the back of the shop, and then come out a minute later having done nothing. You ask, "There, is that better?" and the answer is "Oh yes, I could tell the difference right away!" I won't admit ever having done that but I can say I've seen it many times.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-12-2003, 12:02 PM
 
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hahaha!!! that's funny, Frank!
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condenser mic , eddie van halen , mounted pickups , pickup ring , pickup rings , trem springs , van halen

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