PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

Hello guys, I really need your expertise and experience regarding this matter ANY help will be greatly appreciated, I have been reading the whole week about guitar setups and watching videos, I do have a bit of experience myself but this time Im lost.
I bought this 1994 MIJ s540bm, the guitar seems to be in pretty good shape and Im trying to get it set up as comfortable and correctly as possible.
My first question is in relation to the gap that can be seen where the neck meets the body and the noticeable angle of the neck in relation to the body as can be seen in picture number 1 Is this angle/gap right?
Now to better ask the question is it right in relation to the neck bow that can be seen on picture 2? Do I have too much neck relief?
When I fret the first and last frets I measure at the center of the neck, right on the 9th or 10th fret I can see a considerable gap, about 1mm.
The tremolo angle seems right to me, as described by Rick at Ibanez rules.com the knife edges seem to be parallel to the body.

What i want to achieve?

My action seems pretty good, I dont like silly low action, I like to be able to bend a lot quite comfortably.
I recently restringed the guitar with the same gauge (.9s) and it seems that I lost quite a bit of sustain, so basically SUSTAIN is my main goal here.

Thanks is advance.

Last edited by ErickMoral; 11-03-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 02:54 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

Pull the neck and see if there's a shim under there. If there is, remove it. Most RG's have shims there but S's don't. If you put a shim there like you would on an RG, you'll end up with something like what you've got.

For the rest of your setup questions, click on the Ibanez Rules image at the top and read through his tech section about setup.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 03:16 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

Wow, there must be an epic shim in the pocket! While some shimming is normal, that might be excessive. I know this isn't likely, but if there is an excessively large shim in there, I guess it could affect sustain, but sustain is a tricky subject.

The trem angle looks good. Kudos.

Honestly, my question would be: aside from the sustain issue... are you happy with the string height and amount of buzz (or lack thereof)? If so, then you've probably achieved an optimal setup. Measurements are fluid--a guideline/baseline only--and every guitar is just a tad different even if it's the same brand and model. If the guitar is playing comfortably and not buzzing to death, you're probably good.

Last edited by webmaestro; 06-11-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 03:49 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

I'm wondering if the previous owner shimmed the neck to make up for the neck bow instead of adjusting the neck.. I would check to make sure the truss rod actually works. If there isn't much or any resistance on the nut, it might explain the shim
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 05:10 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

That trem is way to high in the rear.
Turn each tuner a full turn lower over and over until the back part of the trem leading to the fine tuners is level.
Then check your tuning and adjust the screws in the back if you need to get to 440.
Then check the neck and trem elevation.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 06:00 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian View Post
That trem is way to high in the rear.
Turn each tuner a full turn lower over and over until the back part of the trem leading to the fine tuners is level.
Then check your tuning and adjust the screws in the back if you need to get to 440.
Then check the neck and trem elevation.
Are you sure about that? You might want to look at the knife edges and rethink your post




Jimmy
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 06:04 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian View Post
That trem is way to high in the rear.
Turn each tuner a full turn lower over and over until the back part of the trem leading to the fine tuners is level.
Then check your tuning and adjust the screws in the back if you need to get to 440.
Then check the neck and trem elevation.

????

That's a Lo-Pro........... he has it near perfectly parallel now. it's only the slightest bit high in the back as it is...... better pull-up.

Your trem and pickup height look good too.

I would do as Jesse suggested and pull the neck to see if there is a shim in there or not. You have a lot more relief than I like, but if it's comfortable to you.... then its perfect.

For better sustain, go to .10's...... then start the whole process again to accommodate the larger strings.

May I suggest a set of Curt Mangan strings? They significantly added to the amount of sustain I get....especially on bends.

http://www.curtmangan.com/electric-guitar/
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 06:04 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

DAMN!!!! ninja'd again..........
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 06:09 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErickMoral View Post
Hello guys, I really need your expertise and experience regarding this matter ANY help will be greatly appreciated, I have been reading the whole week about guitar setups and watching videos, I do have a bit of experience myself but this time Im lost.
I bought this 1994 MIJ s540bm, the guitar seems to be in pretty good shape and Im trying to get it set up as comfortable and correctly as possible.
My first question is in relation to the gap that can be seen where the neck meets the body and the noticeable angle of the neck in relation to the body as can be seen in picture number 1 Is this angle/gap right?
Now to better ask the question is it right in relation to the neck bow that can be seen on picture 2? Do I have too much neck relief?
When I fret the first and last frets I measure at the center of the neck, right on the 9th or 10th fret I can see a considerable gap, about 1mm.
The tremolo angle seems right to me, as described by Rick at Ibanez rules.com the knife edges seem to be parallel to the body.

What i want to achieve?

My action seems pretty good, I dont like silly low action, I like to be able to bend a lot quite comfortably.
I recently restringed the guitar with the same gauge (.9s) and it seems that I lost quite a bit of sustain, so basically SUSTAIN is my main goal here.







Thanks is advance.

Erick,

I think that if you're satisfied with how the neck is shimmed, you could do:

1. Lower the trem so that the top of the knife edges are parallel to the body.

Or

2. Adjust the truss so that there's less relief on the neck (as in the neck having less of a bow), thereby allowing the string height being similar throughout the neck.

Obviously, if you're not satisfied with the way the neck is shimmed (if there is a shim under the neck), then pull the neck off, remove the shim and put it back to see how it sits in the pocket.


Jimmy
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 06:12 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

I think that the trem is a bit high in the back as well. I'd give the claw screws a 1/4 turn in and re-tune. It's somewhat hard to set the trem on an S because the body is not flat, but it is flat where the knife edge is and you can see that it's a tiny bit higher in the back. Try a 1/4 turn and if it's still a bit high, I'd go with half a turn.

But you'll be pulling the trem anyway to pull the neck. Once you get the trem leveled, measure the distance from the end of the cavity to somewhere on the claw and write that number down or remember it. Usually this ends up in the 7mm range on many guitars. When you put it back together, screw in the claw until you hit your measurement and you'll probably be no more than a 1/4 turn off.

Like I said, on every Roadstar Pro guitar I've seen, there has been no shim. On my '87 540P, I actually had to add a shim at the nut side of the neck pocket.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 07:34 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

From the pics it looks to me like you need to see whats going on with the neck/neck pocket. If that's the best setup,with the neck sitting up like that, I would be pissed. Hopefully it's just a shim put in there by some misguided person trying to fix some other problem. If there is no shim I would say there is a flaw in the neck to body joint that may or may not be corrected with shimming. Once the neck issue is corrected, the trem should sit in the route lower. It also looks like the trem is slightly high in the back. It also appears that the neck has too much relief, but I can't tell for sure because the pics kinda blurry. Keep in mind that small adjustments in all these setup steps should make noticeable difference in playability. When you get to fine tuning a setup you should be dealing with very minute adjustments.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 07:51 PM
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

After looking at the neck in the pic of the whole guitar, I'd tighten the turss rod to straighten the neck more.
This also depends on the frets and how level they are.
I always try to get the fretboard as flat as I can.
If you fret at the just past the last fret you can really see the relief in the neck uned the low E string.
If you pluck it between open and the last fret over the neck, you can tell if it is fretting out or not as you tighten the truss rod.
It looks like everything needs adjusting.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2013, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

I appreciate all of your quick responses, let me summarize:

Basically what I must do is pull out the neck and check if there is a shim under there, my silly question now is: what are the chances that I might damage/crack/anything similar, the neck or the body by doing this on a 20 year old guitar? is this safe? I mean I do have experience working with wood and such and I can be pretty cautious working with tools, but I don't know about wood this old.

The second thought you guys kindly shared was to try and straighten the neck to reduce the neck relief, for what I have been researching, it seems I'm going to need a 7mm truss rod tool, which I understand is basically a hex wrench in the shape of a pipe which I unfortunately don't have. But will I be able to adjust the truss rod using a regular 7mm hex wrench if the base of the tool gives enough clearance to make slight adjustments? I'm a bit short of money right now to order the tool from the suggested websites.

By the way, RGTFANATIC, I will definitely give those strings a try, right now Im on ernie ball's cobalts for the first time, but my next set of strings will definitely be Curt mangans.

Thanks for your replies guys.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2013, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian View Post
If you pluck it between open and the last fret over the neck, you can tell if it is fretting out or not as you tighten the truss rod.
It looks like everything needs adjusting.
Excuse me Sebastian, I didn't quite get the first part of the quote, I know that most of the guitar needs adjusting, that is basically why I'm here.
What so you mean by pluck it between open and the last fret over the neck?
What does fretting out mean?
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2013, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thumbs down Re: PICS Edge LoPro and neck setup questions S540 '93 is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by webmaestro View Post
Wow, there must be an epic shim in the pocket! While some shimming is normal, that might be excessive. I know this isn't likely, but if there is an excessively large shim in there, I guess it could affect sustain, but sustain is a tricky subject.

Honestly, my question would be: aside from the sustain issue... are you happy with the string height and amount of buzz (or lack thereof)? If so, then you've probably achieved an optimal setup. Measurements are fluid--a guideline/baseline only--and every guitar is just a tad different even if it's the same brand and model. If the guitar is playing comfortably and not buzzing to death, you're probably good.
You know webmaestro, to tell you the truth the guitar plays comfortably and there is absolutely no fret buzz with my current action/tremolo height, I did experiment this morning lowering the tremolo a bit more and I did get some buzz, so I do like it the way it is, it's just that gap between the neck and the body that keeps me thinking that there might be something wrong, or maybe that this guitar could be adjusted to play EVEN more comfortably and have better sustain, given the fact that when I received it and played it straight out of the box, I swear the sustain was better, just fretted and bent, the strings ringed for quite a bit more, but I do think that by pulling out the strings out to perfectly clean and condition the fretboard, maybe something funny happened to the neck due to lack of tension from strings and when I restringed it, it didn't have this sustain/feel anymore, I mean it is not a night and day difference whatsoever, but it is noticeable. Could all of this be true or am I being silly again?
By the way I'm uploading pictures of the most worn out frets (1st to 4th) but I'm pretty sure they are not worn at all; this might help you kind people to better get the whole picture of the guitar almost as if you had it in front of you.
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