Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

Hello, I have really bad/short sustain on the 24th fret on my Ibanez uv70p. I know that the shorter the string length the shorter the sustain, and all those theories, but what happens does not sound very natural. Sustain on 1st string on 24th is about 1 second, whereas on 22th same string is about 3 seconds+. This cannot be explained by physics. There is something that kills that note at this specific fret. Rest of strings on the same fret do not sound as bad. In fact low B sustains for ages on the same fret.
Any opinions? Next time I re-string, I will try with a low B string on the 1st string, and see if that changes anything.

For those who remember back from my adventures with the skewed neck pup, and neck stability in general, this guitar most probably has the neck slightly shifted towards the bridge by 1-2 mm. This is manifested also by the positioning of the saddles after precise intonation. It is more on the right side compared to guitars I see over the net with the same bridge.

I am mentioning it, just in case it rings some bells.

Last edited by panix; 06-03-2015 at 06:33 AM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 02:25 PM
 
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

Physics should be able to explain this. It basically deals with how the different parts of the guitar (nut, bridge, body, neck, ect.) are resonating with the vibrating string. I would guess that everything resonates with the string when fretted at the 24th fret in a way that causes the very short sustain.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

^^ Pretty much this I guess. I did the test of installing a 16 string (usually 3rd/G in a 9's set) as 1st/high E. Well, it behaved exactly like the existing 3rd string. As far as the way that high B/24th fret dies, this definitely sounds like a frequency with a period multiple to the basic frequency of the string is working its way against the basic fundamental string movement, as if it dies on doses. In high E I cannot sense it but I bet this happens so fast that the string dies before I hear any particular pattern. So I guess changing gauge might help a little, and I will try with a 7-string 10's set, but I don't think it will improve much. On the positive side, most people, including me, can live with a bad sustain on 24th fret, but good sustain on the rest of frets

Anyway, I still wonder, if I would plug/re-drill the neck so that the 24th spot does not sit exactly over the neck screw, if that would change anything. Or is it just the nature and basic frequencies of basswood, or if the bridge itself (edge zero-ii) is acting that way.

What's your say? Should I go chasing it or leave it alone and just enjoy playing? After market blocks/saddles for edge zero ii-7 string (non-ZPS) are very rare and very expensive, and I really doubt it will make any difference.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 05:36 PM
 
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by panix View Post
What's your say? Should I go chasing it or leave it alone and just enjoy playing?
If your looking for a project that may end up being a headache and probably yield minimum results, go for it

Really, if all else is good I say leave it alone. How often do you actually hit that 24th fret on the high e and want it to ring out for days?

Last edited by madasahatter; 06-03-2015 at 05:37 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-04-2015, 04:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madasahatter View Post
If your looking for a project that may end up being a headache and probably yield minimum results, go for it

Really, if all else is good I say leave it alone. How often do you actually hit that 24th fret on the high e and want it to ring out for days?

lol, haha.
Anyway, I had a theory :
Maple works as a "barrier" against the vibrations of basswood (or bridge vs basswood??). Basswood, although it seems to be very pleasant on the ear for most notes, there is smth about it (or is it the bridge???) on the highest frequencies. My all maple neck-thru Carvin (with a rusted OFR floyd) does not have this issue on 24th fret. So, because 24th fret is "exposed" to the basswood having very little maple between it and the basswood (or the bridge??), it doesn't have this "barrier" preventing the negative vibrations.

This is just a theory tho. I should go someday to the Ibanez shop and play some guitars on the 24th fret and see how they behave.

Speaking about it, hey ppl what's *your* sustain on the 24th fret on your maple/basswood RGs/JEMs/UVs?
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-11-2015, 02:14 PM
 
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

aha...thats why steve always avoid these notes above the holes!
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-12-2015, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

just came back from the "coffee shop" morien?
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-14-2015, 11:53 AM
 
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

I have a similar problem with one of my RGs, but it is at the 17th fret on the g string.

I know that it is a product of the resonance of the wood and the gauge/length of the vibrating string. (I say this because moving to the same note on an adjacent string doesn't have this problem.

Try adding some wieght to the body or headstock, in a similar way that the fat finger does, or those huge brass plates that laminated to the back of the headstock. The trick is to add enough to shift the resonance to a higher frequency.

My situation is tougher. I need to be more precise in order to shift the resonance between two frets, and even then, it will occur when I bend through it.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2015, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkertoy View Post
I have a similar problem with one of my RGs, but it is at the 17th fret on the g string.

I know that it is a product of the resonance of the wood and the gauge/length of the vibrating string. (I say this because moving to the same note on an adjacent string doesn't have this problem.

Try adding some wieght to the body or headstock, in a similar way that the fat finger does, or those huge brass plates that laminated to the back of the headstock. The trick is to add enough to shift the resonance to a higher frequency.

My situation is tougher. I need to be more precise in order to shift the resonance between two frets, and even then, it will occur when I bend through it.
I think in the area after the 17th fret, its not neck wood that does the talking but rather body wood. So not fat finger or adding unnecessary weights to the headstock would help. Poor sustain on G string 17th is sort of classic, tho.
What's your sustain on 24th fret?
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2015, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Reply sustain : does the neck hole or screw right under hurts it?

Just a heads up : sustain problem SOLVED. By moving the neck 1mm to the left, as it was supposedly to be. So, if pickguard or some pup bobin pushes the neck heel, this will/might KILL sustain.
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