straighting out the neck - Jemsite
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-18-2003, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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straighting out the neck

hey guys my guitars neck seem odd. i can't set it straight by tightening the truss rod coz if i do it buzzes at 3rd fret. and checking the bow, its still a lot.

so what i did was not to tighten it that much but i thiunk the bow is too much.

next my action height is 1.6mm at 24th. but when i pull-up my whammy bar when i hit a note at higher frets (17th), it frets out.

shall i add a neck shim at the headstock side?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2003, 02:08 AM
 
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if your open strings don't buzz i wouldn't think that putting in a neck shim would work. it sounds like your neck is tweaked, but i don't know that much.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2003, 01:50 PM
 
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1.6 mm at the 24th?! Umm.. my axes are set up to have ca. 3 mm action there. Preferences may vary, but how low do you want to go?
Also, a neck shim on the headstock side of the neck joint wouldnt only look goofy, it's also unneccessary. Increasing your bridge height has the same effect.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2003, 03:32 PM
 
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no kidding! 1.6 is LOW!

I always thought my action was low at 2.0mm
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-20-2003, 01:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Madness Here
no kidding! 1.6 is LOW!

I always thought my action was low at 2.0mm
That's about HALF where I have mine at the moment. (Arm's getting stronger, finally. Those that know me know what I'm talking about. )

I'm at 3mm bass side and 2.5mm on the treble.

I'd say if you're at 1.6 mm, that's about the bottom line before you're going to have serious buzz and/or choking.

Fretting out when you pull up the bar, yeah, that's a given and only higher action is going to stop that.

To check the neck relief, either clamp or capo the strings at the first fret and press the low E at the 24th fret . . . check the gap at either the 7th, 8th or 9th fret. It should be about .4 or .5 mm from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret.

Any more than that and you should tighten a bit, any less, depending on how much buzz you can handle, you should loosen.

Mic
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-20-2003, 01:07 AM
 
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mine is set up at that height. it is just right if you have good technique and want low action. that is not your problem. make sure your trem angle is right, and make sure your frets are even.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-20-2003, 01:10 AM
 
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by the way im not bashing you guys for having higher action, i am just saying that it is just a preference that will work better if you have a light picking hand.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-22-2003, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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yup 1.6mm!

I read it here at jemsite. on the setting up a jem. in fact specs shows it much lower around 1.45mm on the 24th.

Reference
1.6 mm (1/16 inch) minimum open string clearance at fret-24


String Action Fret-24: JEM7VWH
1.19 - clearance at fret 24, open high E-string
1.45 - clearance at fret 24, open low E-string



and I think you can get the "feel" if your action is set a bit low like this. Kind of the compression effect Joe Satriani is saying. Spongy and fluid.


Hey mic, I think .5mm is too much of a bow. specs says around 0.010". I don't know...maybe we all have our tastes..


I disagree with horstausmforst. increasing bridge hieght does not have the same effect as a neck shim on th headstock. I think adding a neck shim will add little bit of angle to the bridge and thus eliminate a bit of buzz without even increasing bridge height.

what do you guys think?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-22-2003, 06:42 AM
 
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Hmm if I understood you correctly, you were talking about a neck shim on the headstock side of the neck pocket. (So that the neck will point away from you when you're playing). And that has the same effect as increasing the bridge height.

The 'normal' neck shims (resulting in the neck pointing towards you when you're playing; the shim is located in the bridge side of the neck pocket) is meant to let you increase the bridge height while retaining a low action over the neck; for having greater pull-ups on the trem.

While the first version doesn't really make sense (and no one does it anyway afaik), and the 2nd version is meant to increase pull-ups, none of them will give you better action...
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-22-2003, 11:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunyok23
yup 1.6mm!

I read it here at jemsite. on the setting up a jem. in fact specs shows it much lower around 1.45mm on the 24th.

Reference
1.6 mm (1/16 inch) minimum open string clearance at fret-24


String Action Fret-24: JEM7VWH
1.19 - clearance at fret 24, open high E-string
1.45 - clearance at fret 24, open low E-string



and I think you can get the "feel" if your action is set a bit low like this. Kind of the compression effect Joe Satriani is saying. Spongy and fluid.


Hey mic, I think .5mm is too much of a bow. specs says around 0.010". I don't know...maybe we all have our tastes..


I disagree with horstausmforst. increasing bridge hieght does not have the same effect as a neck shim on th headstock. I think adding a neck shim will add little bit of angle to the bridge and thus eliminate a bit of buzz without even increasing bridge height.

what do you guys think?
Where are you getting those numbers as "spec"? Ibanez factory setup is 1.5 mm and 2.0 mm high E to low E at the 12th fret.

I set up any and all guitars with anywhere from .3 to .5 mm bow on the neck, it gives an even feel from the first position all the way up the neck and buzzing can be kept at a minimum.

I've always thought that .2 mm relief (that's about the same as .010 inches") is too little, and with very low action most guitars, even with a great fret level, will buzz like crazy, especially in the lower positions. Sure it feels like the guitar is playing itself, but get a little heavy-handed with it and listen to the buzz, loss of sustain and tone.

Sure if you play feather light you can have the strings right on the frets, but not every one plays like that, nor does everyone like the tone you get from playing like that.

As far as adding a shim to the headstock side of the neck pocket, it does have the exact same effect as raising the bridge. All this is going to to is raise the action, and if you lower the bridge to put the action back where it was in relation to the frets you may end up with the bridge too far down in the body, PLUS, the buzzing is simply going to come back.

The only time you should add a shim to the headstock side of the pocket is when the bridge is WAY up out of the body and you want it closer. This is rare in Ibanez guitars, they usually need a shim on the body side because the bridge is already too close to the body. In fact, many Ibanez guitars made in the 90's come from the factory with a shim on the body side.

All of this information is on Rich's site (big swirly banner at the top) with pictures. Have a read, learn a lot. :-)

Mic
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-22-2003, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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hey you guys are right!i got what you're saying. Thanks!

The setup spec I got is from this site. go to jem/uv setup.
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fret level , ibanez guitars , joe satriani , neck joint , neck relief , neck shim , truss rod

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