Why do they do setups like this? - Jemsite
Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods Guitar workbench discussion such as setup, repairs, mods, installing new parts and more.

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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-07-2021, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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Why do they do setups like this?

I don't understand why they do this.

They unscrew the claw screws all the way out, put a block on the trem, tune or intonate and then screws the claw screw until the block falls off.

Wouldn't it be the same to adjust the bridge angle and action where you want it with the olds strings on. Basically doing a prep setup.

Put a block on the trem cavity, then put new strings, intonate, tune

then once that's done, remove the block and the angle and action should remain where it was before.

Why do they have to unscrew the claw, put a block, then screw it back in, and magically have the block fall off the guitar. It seems like a waste of time, maybe I don't understand it very well.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-07-2021, 03:55 PM
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Who is “they”?

I’ve never seen it done like that before! This looks to be one of the dangers of believing everything you see on the Internet.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-07-2021, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jono View Post
Who is “they”?

I’ve never seen it done like that before! This looks to be one of the dangers of believing everything you see on the Internet.
that photo is from a video from that luthier guy from Stewmac.

I've seen floyd setups done like that on youtube as well, but this photo I posted is from a Jem, the video is about setup for a Jem. They charge like $50-70 for the DVD but I found the video online on a chinese youtube site.

Here is the video, not sure if is appropriate to post but since is live on another site, I see no problem. I can't even download the video from that weird site.
https://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTE3MzU4OTI4.html

go to 23:00

Last edited by Fowleri; 02-07-2021 at 08:24 PM.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 04:38 AM
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

The link didn’t work for me.

For a set up, i need the trem to float so I can see what I’m setting up so to speak.

To change strings I use a microfibre cloth wrapped around a chunk of expanded polystyrene under the trem. To change springs, I put just the microfibre cloth under the trem, detune the strings To slack, then change the springs. That said, I’ve changed the springs just a handful of times over the last 30 years. It’s not something I’d suggest needs doing often.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 06:46 AM
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

I think they just want to show you a trick of quickly balancing the trem if you would've changed string gauges, bridge height etc. that could have an impact on the bridge angle. By doing this you don't have to iteratively go back and forth with the spring tension until it's levelled. Having a tapered shim and low spring tension allows you to adjust the bridge such that its knives are parallel to the body by pushing the shim between the trem block and the body. Then you tune up the guitar with the bridge levelled. Now, by screwing the spring claw screws back in again, the block will drop out when the tension of the springs equal the string tension leaving you with a correctly levelled bridge.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 11:26 AM
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jono View Post
Who is “they”?

I’ve never seen it done like that before! This looks to be one of the dangers of believing everything you see on the Internet.
I do it this way, but I had no idea anyone else did it. I suggested this method to Fowleri as it really helped me when trying to learn floating trem setup/tuning, etc. Thought it would help him get tuned up with trem level.

The basic idea it that you loosen the trem claw and use a block to set the trem level, then go ahead and loosen the locking nut, center the fine tuners, and tune it manually with the bridge blocked level. Once you are tuned up, just lock down the nut, pull out the block (trem pulls up), then screw in the trem claw screws until back in tune and the bridge is perfectly level. Once you do this you can tweak and tune with fine tuners and an occasional trem claw screw adjustment, normal stuff due to temp/humidity/strings stretching/etc... but it gets you set up quick and easy.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 11:40 AM
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

So it’s YOU!!!

YOU are “they”!!!



I have to say that I still don’t *get it* but I’m a lot happier knowing someone from here does

So the whole thing revolves around having a specific block that sits the bridge level before you star out then? Where does the block come from though? Do you just buy it, or make it or...?
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 12:32 PM
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

This is an old builder's trick mainly used when first installing a floyd rose, changing string gauges or tuning, or any other major changes that would affect the balance. It's a quick way to balance the tension of the strings & springs. I've used this trick on my floyd rose guitar builds for as long as I can remember. FireEagle has a good explanation of the idea, but I tighten the springs before removing the block. This way the bridge won't fly out if the springs are fully loosened. You use the tension of the strings to keep the block in place. The block keeps the bridge level. The springs will only have enough tension to keep them from falling out. Center the fine tuners, tune your strings to pitch, tighten the locking nut. You can do some other adjustments at this stage if needed. After all of that is set, slowly tighten the tension on the springs. When the block just barely slips out on its own everything is balanced.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Does Rich do setups this way? That’s what I want to know and yes the link works is a chinese YouTube type site. I just clicked i on my phone and it sent me to the video.

I see no point in doing a setup like this it seems just a trick to show off ��

Why not just set the angle and action with the old strings on, block the bridge, remove strings, put new strings, intonate, tune and remove the block

Last edited by Fowleri; 02-08-2021 at 01:26 PM.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 01:18 PM
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jono View Post
So it’s YOU!!!

YOU are “they”!!!



I have to say that I still don’t *get it* but I’m a lot happier knowing someone from here does

So the whole thing revolves around having a specific block that sits the bridge level before you star out then? Where does the block come from though? Do you just buy it, or make it or...?
LOL.... Yep, my cover is blown! Madasahatter's explanation is better than mine... I live in Kansas so my English is not so good. ;-)

I keep saying I am going to cut custom blocks for each of my guitars, but in reality I have a small collection of cut down wooden shims (like the kind you buy when installing a door) that I keep with my guitar tools and such. Anything that fits in there and makes your bridge level will work.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEagle View Post
LOL.... Yep, my cover is blown! Madasahatter's explanation is better than mine... I live in Kansas so my English is not so good. ;-)

I keep saying I am going to cut custom blocks for each of my guitars, but in reality I have a small collection of cut down wooden shims (like the kind you buy when installing a door) that I keep with my guitar tools and such. Anything that fits in there and makes your bridge level will work.
Why you choose the flashy way out my guy?
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 03:09 PM
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fowleri View Post
I see no point in doing a setup like this it seems just a trick to show off ��
Again, I think you're not understanding the concept. This is not a flashy trick to show off. It's an easy way to keep the bridge in place when having to rebalance the tension between the springs & strings. This technique could be used anytime you change something on the guitar that would upset that balance. Putting on a new set of the same gauge strings; which I believe is what you are thinking about, would not change the string-spring balance.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madasahatter View Post
Again, I think you're not understanding the concept. This is not a flashy trick to show off. It's an easy way to keep the bridge in place when having to rebalance the tension between the springs & strings. This technique could be used anytime you change something on the guitar that would upset that balance. Putting on a new set of the same gauge strings; which I believe is what you are thinking about, would not change the string-spring balance.
But all he is doing in the video I posted is a simple setup where you put the same strings, adjust angle and action, intonate and tune.

Maybe it has its uses but for a simple setup it seems like a waste of time when you can just adjust everything with the old strings, put a block, do the setup and remove the block, should stay the same angle

If all you’re doing is putting same strings which applies to most setups and do the regular angle and height adjustments, intonation and all. Why should you back out the screws, put a block and only put them in again.

In a way is like a magic trick cause many of the videos I watched on youtube of people doing it like this, they always say

Watch the block magically fall off the guitar and we are now perfect lol
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 03:39 PM
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Putting a new set of the same gauge strings would not require to rebalance the string-spring tensions; that balance should not change. If that's all your doing then there would be no reason to loosen the spring claw and by default would make this technique irrelevant. You would also not need to do a full setup again just for changing the strings.

One last time, you would use this technique when balancing the string-spring tensions. Typically when changing to a different gauge string, a complete overhaul of your setup, or installing a new bridge.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2021, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Why do they do setups like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madasahatter View Post
Putting a new set of the same gauge strings would not require to rebalance the string-spring tensions; that balance should not change. If that's all your doing then there would be no reason to loosen the spring claw and by default would make this technique irrelevant. You would also not need to do a full setup again just for changing the strings.

One last time, you would use this technique when balancing the string-spring tensions. Typically when changing to a different gauge string, a complete overhaul of your setup, or installing a new bridge.
That’s now what I asked in this topic though. I asked why peolle do this for basic setups which is what was done in the video link I posted.

None of that stuff you mention such as different string gauge, overhaul or new bridge was done in any of the videos on youtube and that Stewmac photo I posted where they back out the screws and make the block fall of later.

Ive seen people on youtube use this magic block trick for basic setups, it doesn’t make sense
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