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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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"Knowing Scales" - omnipotent scale knowledge - any root, an

"Knowing" and scale, from any root all over the neck. Some people just know it.
How?
Do they sit down and practice everyone for hours and hours?
Yes but... is it no longer memory? They can just play any scale from any point fluidly. I practice hard but I can't get it!

It's a world I need to know!
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 03:00 AM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

It's about learning the pattern of one scale completely. I'd reccomend you learn the E major in every position, then learn how to apply that shape for different keys. I learned the E natural minor completely first, so it's a little trickier for me to figure out things, especially as a theory-dummy.
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 05:37 AM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

I have a different approach that, I learned in a day and hence forth could play in any key anywhere on the neck,

ill put it all togethor in an email
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 06:08 AM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Please share!


julio

ps- I havent forgot the cd
The fact that your email sits at the top of my inbox(god knows how) no matter what comes in,keeps reminding me :biggrin:
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 06:31 AM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Ok ill share but alot of people are surely going to knock the way I do things, and flame me for even suggesting such a horrible method

email transcript below

<br /> <br /> <font color="blue">Hey...<br /> <br />

if you think it sucks do let me know, but it worked for me in obtaining a good command of the fingerboard, in a short period of time

I know I left out the modes of harmonic and melodic minors but I think this is a good place to start.

edit = for got to link the file :doh:
click here

(Edited by Devo at 12:37 pm on Sep. 1, 2001)
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Sorry guys but you don't get my question.
"Knowing" is in quotes for a reason.
It's not memorization or visual patterns of any sort. They "know" the scale mostly by ear that from anywhere on the fretboard they can play it like they've been playing that scale for years when they might never have ever played it before! Just as soon as they hear all the degrees and intervals in a scale they'll know it everywhere!

I already do know quite a few all over the neck.
Since the only key i've been playing in is E, I can very easily modulate. I can switch any mode within the key. Just a matter of changing one, or at the most, 2 notes.

Visit this link to get an understanding of the concept "knowing" scales.

...ok the link isn't working...
go to
www.guitar.com
click on audio-visual
click on celeb guitar lessons
click on Joe Satriani - Scales and Soloing lesson
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 02:35 PM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Steve, There is nothing wrong as far as I can see with that method. Actually thats exactly what Im working on

But I cant see it being THAT easy I was expecting something REALLY easy

I reckon that is a good method

Julio
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 04:12 PM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Maybe the idea of "knowing" the scales automatically has to do with a few ideas.

* a basic idea is that while they're moved up and down the fretboard, scales have the same basic pattern. *Thus, if you can play something in E Major on the 9th fret, chances are, you can play something in F# Major on the 11th fret. *

* the second idea is harder to memorize. *Another way guitarists (especially the great) seem to "Know" where they are is that they DO know where they are. *After playing and practicing so many positions, I've noticed I'm able to "guestimate" where a song is. *Even if I can't guess the exact notes right away, I'm often able to solo in the key of a song right away. *Without trying to transcribe it, I'm able to get a feeling for the song based on previous use of those chords. *What this basically means is that with experience comes an ear for tonality.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 06:13 PM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Quote:
Since the only key i've been playing in is E
There's your problem; doing this, or concentrating on any one scale will put you in one nasty SOB of a rut - creatively and mentally. *This is terrific, of course, if you're playing in the key of E but is the reason why you can't "find" the other scales. *One of the most basic methods would be to record yourself playing a simple I-IV-V progession in every key and jamming over them. *Before starting, a good reccomendation would be to go through every applicable mode of that key so that you "know" where you're going to want to go on the fretboard beforehand. *Experiment with this. *Furthermore, you could grab your favorite cd's and jam along with them, after going through your modes first.

Modes are the key in this case. *Have a little fun though, don't make yourself feel like you have to force yourself through things, understand that you're gaining access to the entire] fretboard. *You'll be there in no time!
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Definately all good advice. I know E so well... that it sucks. All I can really seem to get to play is in E and there's nothing new for me there. Moving to a totally new key that I don't know takes some motivation from my part.

Really, the only way to understand what exactly I mean by "know" is to jam with someone who posesses this knowledge or maybe even watch the video at the directions I posted earlier.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2001, 11:29 PM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

The key is to learn the seven 'modes'. Learn them up and down, and in different picking patterns... When you know all 7, you can walk from one to another and still be in the same key. It builds a big map over the fretboard. Practice it :read: some hours a week at least, and you will soon feel total freedom. :thumbsup: Then it's up to your imagination to come up with some gr8 solos... hehe
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-02-2001, 12:26 AM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

I have a completely unique approach, I guess. I'm not reliant on "patterns" or "shapes" at all. Maybe there are a few interesting note patterns &amp; permutations that I like to use in different keys, but for the most part, I find rote memorization of scales/patterns (besides easy three-note-per-string ones) very hard.

I never studied hard at it at all, and I'd say I can play pretty fluently from nearly all keys. I never laboriously worked it my approach; it came naturally with a lot of "practice" (i.e., improvising - not really cold-hard practice).
  • If you would like, I can describe my "process" in greater detail, but the basic gist involves:
  • Full understanding of notes on the neck.
    I have an exercise that gets your "note" chops up rather quickly; if you would like me to share that I'd be more than happy to.
  • Full knowledge of the relationship between scales and modes. I'm sure we all got this one down right? No guitar required here.
  • A working knowledge of key signatures by relative major and minor keys (i.e., #### = E major/C# minor)
  • If you do rely somewhat on patterns, it is helpful to be able to connect them without sounding obvious. I'm sure many of you have got this covered already.

Anyway those are the basics. Let me know if you want to know my approach, I'll post it.

-Justin
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-02-2001, 02:33 AM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Justin-
I'm interested in your approach.. please expand on this technique. Thanks!
-Bradius
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-02-2001, 10:51 AM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

the thing about the patterns for me was that by learning seven patterns, I can run a scale up in one position or up the fingerboard, and I can change without giving any thought from e lydian to e dorian anywhere on the neck because as I kinda see the change as a shift down the fretboard of all the frets.
that sounds weird I know very hard to explain
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-02-2001, 10:59 AM
 
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"Knowing Scales"

Quote:
Quote: from Devo on 10:51 am on Sep. 2, 2001
I can run a scale up in one position or up the fingerboard...
:glare: Your improv's don't sound like that do they?
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