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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-07-2003, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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2 questions about Modes...

Well, just as I thought I was nailing down modes, some doubts started popping into my mind. I hope you guys can help.

By listening, playing and studying a lot of music (mainly Satriani's) I've been able to understand the basics of how modes work and what they sound like. It's obviously something that can't be easily explained and you actually have to listen to it in order to understand it. Anyway, this has all been said before so here are my doubts.

Most of the riffs, licks, solos, I've found are always in a given mode which I'm able to recognise by looking at the intervals. However, I've noticed that I still haven't been able to find the locrian mode anywhere. I guess it has to be a very strange mode due to that lowered fifth and the root corresponding to the seventh degree of the corresponding ionian (major) scale. Nevertheless I find it a bit strange that I haven't been able to find it yet, after all Satch's music is not exactly simple. I'd appreciate if anyone could indicate me any musical examples where I can listen to this mode and any useful information about it.

My other doubt is about how modes are played over chords. I don't know how to explain this doubt of mine since I'm not too sure really what I'm not understanding here but I'll do my best for you to follow me. What I don't get is if I should keep in mind the chord over which I'm playing or the tonality of the song at that moment. Yes, many times this will be the same but if for example you have a simple chord progression in C major (C major, F major, G dominant seventh) where you would probably play C ionian. Does this mean that when the chord changes to G7 the scale will turn into G mixolydian or will it still be C ionian (because that's the obvious tonality of that progression)???

I hope I made myself clear enough and I'll appreciate any help you guys can give me. THX
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-08-2003, 09:03 AM
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flamenco music is most often in locrian or spanish scale (which is a locrian scale with an extra note stuck in). Have a listen to that. Otherwise I have a few locrian riffs i could record and you could listen to them

Changing mode per chord is more often associated with jazz where your constantly changing key. I think i understand your doubt maybe if you think of the chords in context of their surrounding chords. just cause you have a G7 chord doesnt mean you have modulated to G mixo for that chord, but are rather continuing in C major.

if you only had one accomp chord for each key it would be very uninteresting harmonically

Hope that is somewhat helpful
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 05:52 AM
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Are you in G mixolydian? Yes. THe notes for G mixolydian and C Ionian are the same.

To get the most out of the modal sound, focus your note choice on the G in the scale and the characteristic note of the G mixolydian mode which is "F"

The key of G major has an F# so when you are playing G mixolydian, targeting the G's on your guitar and the F's tell the listener that you are definitely in the G mixolydian mode as opposed to G major or G ionian.

The theory behind music is great.I recommend it highly, but the experimenting and listening is what makes you a good musician.THe theory sets guidelines and then your mind comes up with creative parts.I hope this helps.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-09-2003, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not talking about the scale I'm in. I know G mix is the same as C ionian but i mean if the feeling the song will BE G mix or C ionia. ANywy thx for the replies they've been quite helpful but can anyone tell me the name of a song with locrian sound???

THX Again
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 09:42 AM
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Hey brother.... if you are just diving deep into music theory because you want to learn it in and out, thats cool!!!

I've done it myself.

But there is no need to get caught up in the G mixolydian, F# Dorian, etc..etc.. talk on every song.

Your major scale, which you know very well is of course your mother scale.
And I always tell my students.... I don't want you to think "ok..now I'm in F Lydian"..now I'm in D Dorian"........WRONG/TOO CONFUSING.... You are playing C major.

Where knowing D dorian, and F Lydian is useful is when it comes to chords.

If someone plays a D minor chord (the II chord), while you play the C major scale ....that is going to have a Dorian feel. If someone plays an F major chord (the IV chord) while you play the C major scale, That will have an Lydian feel to it.

I've probably just confused the issue more.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 10:56 AM
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So modes only realy come into any real 'usefull ness' when their respective chord is being played yeah?, so F lydian is basically just playing the C major scale, it only sounds 'Lydian' when used over an Fmaj chord.

Although i think am still confused as is zEr0 in the sense that if i have a C E F progression say and i play the C Ionian/Major scale over it then once the other chord comes in ill be playing a differnt scale.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 12:38 PM
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i believe flamenco music is in phrygian but the chord the goes before it is played major....
like in C major for example....
phrygian would be in E minor, if u want to make it "spanish sounding" just turn the E in to major....thats it.

feel free to disagree....
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-24-2003, 08:10 PM
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Flamenco music is for most or the runny parts is in eight tone spanish scale. Which is teh characteristic flamenco sound. the closest (note for note) you can get to that is locrian.

Try to understand that modality is a sense of key and not just a fingering!!

Edit: found one phrygian dominant scale in Turina's hommage to tarrega
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-25-2003, 10:55 AM
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Locrian if i am not mistaken can be found in megadeth's music, the flattened 5th being one of the evilest intervals you can hear, check out... oooh... lets see.. devils island for an example

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-27-2003, 05:21 PM
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hmm i always thought locrian was hardly used EVER , people say it sounds like crap , and i agree too really , i like phrygian if im playing flamenco kind stuff
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-27-2003, 07:02 PM
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its very very hard to get locrian to work in soloing, its something thats tricky to blaze away at but to find notes in that work is where its at, the main thing i use it for is the flattened 5th interval from the root, nice n evil
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