How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-22-2010, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6
Post How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

I know this sounds like the stupidest question one could possibly ask, I'm talking about how you come into contact with the string and what you do with it, and how you switch from string to string.

The first option is to move the tip of the pick from point A to point B, with the string being between those points, and the pick doesn't slow down when it touches the string, It just moves from point A to point B in one swift motion. Ideally, the two points are very close to each side of the string, of course.

The second option is more of a 'prepared' stroke. The pick doesn't actually begin to pick the string until it comes into contact with the string. The pick meets the string, your brain realizes that it has come into contact with the string, plucks it, and is then OUT OF CONTROL!!11! and your brain freaks out.

The third option is to make point A and B precisely on each side of the string. The string is never in air, it just flips from one side of the string to the other.

I basically play with the second option, where I have to touch the string, recognize that I have touched the string, make the picking motion, and then attempt to regain control of my pick once it flies off the string.

One thing to note about the first method: you don't actually need a guitar to do it! haha If the pick is simply moving from point A to B, and that is its job, then it doesn't really matter if a string is there or not, you are still making a 'stroke'. With the second and third method, you have to have a string to touch.

So I was wondering if anyone else can add some insight to this, or if they agree that the first method is preferable?

Onto moving from string to string, when you have to play something like this:
e--0---0---0---
b----0---0---0--

whether you are inside picking or outside picking, you have to pick, move out of the strings, move to the next string, move back into the plane of the strings, pick again, move back out of the strings, move back to the previous string, move back into the plane of the strings, and repeat. There is no way to economy pick it, or angle your picking, because you have to move in and out of the plane for every note, RIGHT?

I made another drawing, of when you play over all six strings, and when you play one note per string on two strings. As you can see, you have to move in and out of the plane of the strings for every note, slowing down your pickg considerably. Even Paul Gilbert seems to have a speed limit of about 12-13 nps with phrases like this, which is just about how many times one can possibly make a knocking on a door motion with one's wrist, so I think that he is actually moving in and out of the plane with every pick. Am I correct on this?

I have found other ways to use my muscles to either make arcs, or double the frequency of my in out motion, or use hybrid picking etc., but that still doesn't change the fact that when I use standard alternate picking, I can only get about 7 notes per second playing one note per string, while others can get double that, so I'm wondering if there is also a flaw in my string changing technique.

So for the people who are playing 10+ notes per second on one note per string licks, are you actually moving in and out of the plane of strings 10 times a second, or are you doing something else?
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KillerTofu is offline  
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-22-2010, 01:58 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Re: How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerTofu View Post
Code:
e--0---0---0----
b----0---0---0--
I would start this with an up pick on the E then up and over the B and come down with a down pick, then hop over the E and hit it on the way up, and continue.

you move into the plane of the string less and less the faster you go, at a reasonable speed you can go in v deep and the string just bounces out of the way, then as you speed up your technique tightens up and you just nip into the string and carry on
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-03-2010, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
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Re: How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesimo View Post
I would start this with an up pick on the E then up and over the B and come down with a down pick, then hop over the E and hit it on the way up, and continue.

you move into the plane of the string less and less the faster you go, at a reasonable speed you can go in v deep and the string just bounces out of the way, then as you speed up your technique tightens up and you just nip into the string and carry on
ok well i'm not sure what i need to do to make any improvement on my string changing.
if i play this
e-0---0--
b---0---0
and start with an upstroke, inside picking, i can only play it at like 115 bpm. if i start on a down, outside picking, it's even slower; this is ironic, because with other phrases it is the opposite.

e------3-5-6-5-3---
b--3-5-----------5-

if i start this on a down, so that i'm outside picking, it's way faster (like 160bpm) than when i'm inside picking (130). it's still way slower than anythin paul gilbert does though.

i have found that if i'm on cough syrup or if i have a few drinks, i seem to stop trying to move in and out of the plane, and i'm playing faster (i can get up to like 180, despite being less coordinated!) but it's not as clean. it also seems to get me to move into the type a picking.

but how would i go about making my string changing faster? I've been working on using the absolute tip of the pick and just lightly brushing over the string, but so far i haven't really improved.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-03-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Re: How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

See John Petrucci's Rock Discipline DVD he has some good examples on alternate picking and string skipping.

If I try to play string skipping fast, I eventually make mistakes and hit the wrong strings. I found out it helps me to mute out the strings I don't want with both my palm and my fingers on the fretting hand. It won't come out extremely clean, but you can speed up and clean up later

Also I'm faster at outer picking than inside picking... I believe most people are as you have a wider and more natural range of movement.

Try with a smaller pick maybe... I use Jazz III Ultex and they work great for me! I prefer those to the Jazz III nylon... the ultex are just a tiny little bit bigger and it makes a difference to me..

As you probably already know, for fast picking, pick at an angle and use just a little tip of pick! Hope it helps!
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-22-2010, 04:37 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

it just depends on YOUR habits and preferences.. I can get damn fast with inside picking, but not outside picking.. so every time I change strings, I do either inside picking or economy picking. So I would play it like this:

-----------5--6--8--
-5--6--8------------

d u d d u d

or:


-----------5--6--8--
-5--6--8------------

u d u d u d

that is the most natural way for ME to play it.. for others it might be easier with pure alternate picking and outside picking. It just depends on what feels more natural to You...
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-2010, 06:20 PM
 
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Re: How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino1978 View Post
it just depends on YOUR habits and preferences.. I can get damn fast with inside picking, but not outside picking.. so every time I change strings, I do either inside picking or economy picking. So I would play it like this:

-----------5--6--8--
-5--6--8------------

d u d d u d

or:


-----------5--6--8--
-5--6--8------------

u d u d u d

that is the most natural way for ME to play it.. for others it might be easier with pure alternate picking and outside picking. It just depends on what feels more natural to You...
I agree with that. "what ever feels natural". I was self taught for my first 3 years of playing and I taught myself to only down pick.. BIG PROBLEM.. It took me about two years to learn how to pick "correctly".. But even picking "correctly" everyone has their own way. Sometimes I still wonder if I'm doing it right. haha...
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 06:06 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Surrey, UK
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Re: How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

troygrady.com/shredcam-code.php

To answer your question, if your alternate picking is up to speed, it's most probably string changing and synchronization slowing you down.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 07:02 PM
 
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Re: How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

e-0---0--
b---0---0

Something like that I would start with a down and then an up. Paul Gilbert would definitely start that with an up stroke and then a down.

If there were 3 strings involved and I had to skip the b string to get to the g, then i would start with an up on the e and a down on the G, then an up on the e down g etc. Reason being: your bound to hit the b string if your starting with a down and then an up.

e---0----0--
b------------
g------0-----0



I wouldn't worry to much about pick angle or economy of motion. You might be surprised how much the guitar pick you are using is actually involved. If you haven't found something your comfortable with, you should continue to experiment with pick gauges and materials. I used the dunlop 1.5mm for many years, then realized that my pick speed was severely dragging. I tried a ton of different picks and ultimately found the jazz III to be a life changer. My picking transformed within months. I'm not saying you cant shred with normal size picks, its just a matter of finding something that works comfortably.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 11:45 AM
 
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Thumbs up Re: How do you pick? and how do you move from one string to another?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirshredsalot View Post

I wouldn't worry to much about pick angle or economy of motion. You might be surprised how much the guitar pick you are using is actually involved. If you haven't found something your comfortable with, you should continue to experiment with pick gauges and materials. I used the dunlop 1.5mm for many years, then realized that my pick speed was severely dragging. I tried a ton of different picks and ultimately found the jazz III to be a life changer. My picking transformed within months. I'm not saying you cant shred with normal size picks, its just a matter of finding something that works comfortably.


Couldn't agree more
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