Legato strength - Jemsite
Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! Covers everything from discussing musicians, bands, music, albums, videos, local jams & sharing multimedia links (no illegal file sharing please).

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-24-2001, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 345
Legato strength

I have noticed lately that my improvs have been lacking a fair amount in the legato department. My legato is satisfactory but I do have problems... For example playing Satch-style stuff on the bass strings is torture on the back of my hand, no matter where I put my thumb on the neck. I usually play standing up (it makes me less lazy, plus it's good practice for the stage! :biggrin: ) which IMO gives you a more accurate representation of your 'real chops' (I've never seen a rock guitarist play sitting down, have you?). Only problem with this, is that it's inherently worse when you're standing and the guitar is a little lower. I've tried raising the strap height a little bit, and on both the guitars (Ibanez RG w/ W2 neck, pretty thin; MM Axis w/ thicker neck) my legato is still not where it should be.

I'm afraid that the more I try to practice this, the worse it is for my hand. Any suggestions?

-Justin
sixstringphoenix is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2001, 06:58 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 747
Legato strength

I used to just practice it endlessley.

Not good for your left hand I might add.

JP pretty much sums up the best way to practice it.
Jog and then Sprint.
i.e. find a phrase or a selection of phrases you can practice and spend a few minutes playing them at "jogging speed", break this time up now and again by quick "sprints".
This really helps with the stamina you need to build for legato, which in turn works on strength.

Try not to get too tight playing legato, it's something I used to do a lot. Let the hand and fingers flow a little more, don't force them rigidly to hold form.

And don't practice it for too long, 5 mins as part of your session is long enough, it's a real hand killer.

gl
Steve
ripl3y is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2001, 07:43 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,514
Legato strength

I find that its only when I stop trying so hard with legato that it all pieces togethor.

my hands tense up when I try to play legato so the only way around that I have is to not think about it at all, but just try to keep the picture of the melody in my head. This is all still new to me, life without a pick or two hand tapping is scary.

maybe thats why satch looks so dang relaxed, hes not trying at all
Devo is offline  
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2001, 02:56 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 835
Legato strength

I find that, when it comes to legato playing, it is really easy for a player to get kind of sloppy, at least that was a problem that I always had. *Try to get the right coordination down first by playing them at a slow or moderate tempo, making sure that all the notes come out smoothly and evenly. *I think it is better for your hands too because it stretches out your hands gradually, as opposed to just playing fast which will just hurt and cripple your hand. *Once you get that down, playing it fast will become less and less of a problem for your hands.

Raising your guitar strap or changing to different guitar necks can help but it will not totally solve your problems. *I mean, look at Satch. *He wears his guitar pretty damn low, and he's not a big guy with long fingers either. *But he can still do those crazy legato licks with no sweat. *
Carlo is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2001, 06:49 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 318
Legato strength

wow guys...I have the opposite problem! All my trouble is with my picking hand. My legato hand is pretty strong and fast but my pick hand is horrible.

Justin... I would suggest the following exercise. The idea here is NOT speed but legato hand strength. If you do this correctly your hand should burn by the end of the exercise!

-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------etc. on up the stirngs.
--------------------h1-h2-p1-h2------
---h1-h2-p1-h2------------------------

slide up to fret 3 after the last hammer on on the high e string and do this

-(3)-p2-h3-p2-------------------
------------------h3-p2-h3-p2---------
-------------------------------------etc. on down the strings.
------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------

go up to 12th fret and back down.

great...that was with fingers 1 and 2. now do the same exercise with finger combos.

2 and 3
3 and 4 (absolute killer!)
1 and 3
2 and 4
1 and 4

notice the pick isn't used in the entire exercise...good luck!
chilln2music is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2001, 06:50 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 318
Legato strength

oh yea try your best not to tense up. and see if that makes things easier in the long run.
chilln2music is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2001, 08:11 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 445
Legato strength

I thougt that part (in the petrucci video) about jogging and sprinting was about fast picking, not legato. What he says about legato is that you should practice each of the different scale fragments a minute each without stopping when you switch to the next. I have found this to work good, but remember one thing also. It is sometimes easy to think, man, im getting good, and become sloppy with the practice, legato is the type of tecnique that requires a regular amount of practice per week to keep in good shape.... That goes for a lot of different tecniques.

Scale fragments:
for example, on the B string
fragment 1: 3-4-3-1
fragment 2: 2-4-2-1
fragment 3: 3-5-3-1

and so on, to cover all of the scales, on the entire fretboard... etc.etc... */Jay
Jay Satriani is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2001, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 345
Legato strength

All great suggestions... I'm trying some of them out.

Andrew, your exercise is killer on the hand! A real workout.... my right hand (I'm a lefty) was pretty much on fire halfway through the first finger combination... Not a good sign! :idunno: hehe

-Justin
sixstringphoenix is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-26-2001, 10:58 AM
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 84
Legato strength

You must have an awsome left hand Andrew!
Vai is God is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-26-2001, 12:46 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,514
Legato strength

if your doing the two finger exercise beware you can over do it, take breaks if its sore stop for a sec!!! and then start again, you dont want to go get a repetitive strain injury like me, I cant play for long periods of time at all as my thumb is totally phunked from over practicing stuff like this.
Devo is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-26-2001, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 345
Legato strength

Hey, has anyone tried Satch's one-handed six-string 11th-chord arpeggios, a la Mystical Potato Head Groove Thing/Power Cosmic 2000? I just started practicing them yesterday, and I am getting really good at them; I hypothesize that this would make an excellent warm up AND exercise. Just a suggestion...

-Justin
sixstringphoenix is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-26-2001, 05:48 PM
MD
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 47
Legato strength

I'd suggest buying gripmaster. After 8 years of break in playing my fingers were (and still are, but not that bad as before) really weak. I bought gripmaster and along with everyday exercises it helped me a lot.
MD is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-26-2001, 06:10 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,514
Legato strength

I have heard some nasty things about those gripmaster things though, people comming out with tendonitis and pulled ligaments and tendons, one guy even wore out the cartilage in his index finger and was told hed not play again, but he does.... but with alot of pain and hes doing his final year in classical guitar over here in Ireland.

I think they were intended for rock climbers to keep the fingers warm when theyre not climbing and to warm up before competitions.

then Im going to be biasd as Im just totally paranoid about over practicing and stuff like that because of my thumb.
Devo is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-26-2001, 06:17 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 318
Legato strength

Justin I'm not exactly sure if this is what your talking about but I do these which may be similar:

All hammer ons:

Am11
-----------------10-------------------------
--------------8------8----------------------
-----------5------------5-------------------
--------9------------------9----------------
-----7------------------------7-------------
--5------------------------------5----------

repeat that over and over...it helps to hold your picking hand BEHIND the strings, like where the nut is to mute any extra ringing strings...it also looks cool

here's another...this ones major:

GMaj.11
-----------------8------------------------
--------------7----7---------------------
-----------4----------4------------------
--------7----------------7---------------
-----5----------------------5------------
--3----------------------------3---------

There's so many variations on those...another cool thing is to go through the modes like this (hopefully you can see the pattern cause I'm not good at explaining this)

Ionian
--------------------------------9--------------------------------
------------------------9----7-----------------------------------
----------------9----7----6----------then reverse it---------
--------9----7----6----------------to come back down-----
-----7----5------------------------------------------------------
--5---------------------------------------------------------------

if you do those really fast up high on the neck you can sound like a computer...reminds me of some crazy Meshugga type solos.

remember the pick isn't used in ANY of these licks.
chilln2music is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-26-2001, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 345
Legato strength

Yes those are the "Satch arpeggios." They're getting a lot easier!

And the third one is a great idea, thanks!!!!!!!!

-Justin
sixstringphoenix is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jemsite forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address

IMPORTANT: You will be required to activate your account so please ensure that your email address is correct.

If you do not receive your activation check your spam folder before using the CONTACT US form (at the bottom right of each page).



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fractured my fretting pinky from hockey... how do I get strength back? illumina315 Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! 3 01-15-2014 03:41 PM
Neck strength / durability LowYaw Tech: Setup, Repairs and Mods 6 09-23-2010 09:44 AM
legato help! newbieguitarmaker Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! 21 09-10-2006 10:24 AM
Pinky-Ring finger independence and strength megadeth Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! 4 02-27-2006 04:15 AM
Speed, Accuracy, Strength, Dexterity, Technique, etc. Drache713 Players & Bands, Music & Sounds, Tours & Jams, Lessons & Theory! 6 07-23-2002 12:08 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome