Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete! - the end of intervals - Jemsite
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-09-2001, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete! - the end of intervals

Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete

Prerequesite: *Lesson 9

OK, this lesson is going to apply the ideas in lesson 9 and show you the rest of intervals.

As we discussed- a 2nd is simply the next note from a root and whether it is major or minor is based on the number of half-steps.

All the rest of the intervals are similar
Root
Minor 2nd = 1 half step
Major 2nd = 2 half steps
Minor 3rd = 3 half steps
Major 3rd = 4 half steps
Perfect 4th = 5 half steps
Augmented 4th/Diminished 5th (Tritone) = 6 half steps
Perfect 5th = 7 half steps
Minor 6th = 8 half steps
Major 6th = 9 half steps
Minor 7th = 10 half steps
Major 7th = 11 half steps
Perfect Octave = 12 half steps

There are a few others that are just enharmonic (Same pitch, different names). *For instance, you could have an Augmented 5th, which is a Minor 6th. *Same note, different spelling. *

Next time, we'll simplify this idea when I give a cycle of white-note thirds.

There's not much here to practice, but read and comprehend!
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-09-2001, 04:37 PM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

COOL! I always needed more help on this topic. Thanks
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-09-2001, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

I should add that all of the distances listed are between the interval and the root, but I'm sure you guys knew that too

I have to say I've read some of the smartest most well spoken thoughts on the web right here in this forum. *Nice job guys.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-12-2001, 11:22 PM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

What is a half-step?
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 01:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

a half-step is also known as a semitone. *This is the smallest measuredable distance between tones on the guitar. *Western music is measured in half-steps. *Some eastern music used further divisions of pitch. *a half step is the space between C and C# for instance.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 04:27 AM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

I swear I posted a reply... in fact I'm positive I did.

I was going to ask if you were going to do any sort of lessons on non 12-step western tuning theory... or anything like an 8 tone (not including octave) scale. *Just curious what others have to add about subjects like those.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

hmmm...hadn't thought about it. I probably won't be adding any Eastern ideas in the near future. *I've got a bunch of stuff planned, but that's not really in my grasp enough to teach it yet I think.

Here's what's planned:

* Tips on Eric Johnson's music
* Challenging excerpts from "Cliffs of Dover"
* Solo Contest!
* Song Lesson: *Joe Satriani "Love Thing"
* Song Lesson: *DLR "Big Trouble"
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 06:57 PM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

Eastern Music Into(basic)

Basic easten modes

hope your bending is accurate .......


A collection of kick ass eastern rhythms

hope you find'em useful Jay
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-13-2001, 10:07 PM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

you say, Chris, that a half-step is the smallest measuredable interval in Western Music...what about the 1/4 steps? *I'm wondering about the 1/4 steps. *They seem smallder to me.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-14-2001, 08:49 AM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

In Western Music:-

Half steps are considered to be the smallest steps since it is the basis for all scales (most are now equal tempered, but are based on the Pythagorean system - you know some old greek guy) and can be played on pretty much any instrument; and use 12 halftone steps in an octave. *Obviously instruments with discreet pitching - most notably Piano, have half tones as their smallest playable intervals)
Quarter tones can be used - on guitar with bends, unfretted string instruments etc in some situations.
The most commonly used is the 'blues note' *which lies between a minor third and major third - and so is the quarter tone above the minor third.
While guitarists probably use this and other quarter tone bends quite regularly and effectively, on many instruments playin quarter tones can frequently just sound like bad intonation or pitch (just think of someone mutilating a violin!) and so they may be rarely used.

Eastern Music is far more varied in its use of tunings and intervals. Scales made up of 8, 10, 16 equal steps in scale are used in various forms. This gives a much wider palatte to use, but can seem a little uneasy on the ear if (like most of us i guess) you have almost exclusively listened to western music.

As far as using these other tunings are concerned, there are a few instances of western music utilizing this variety, and considering where we are (this board) I guess we should mention MR Vai.

The two examples that come to mind are the middle section on "Deep Down Into the Pain" (or is it Rescue Me or Bury Me?) from SNR where Vai had a guitar designed and made with a 16 note scale (which he called a Xavian scale) to play to create a different feel to the backing.
The other is on "There's Something Dead In Here" from Flexable Leftovers. The melody is played and pitched shifted into 8 equal steps (octatones?) and overlaid. A lot harder to hear what the individual intervals would sound like as they are playing a 12 step melody at these different pitches.

So there ya go...start picking holes.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-14-2001, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

Jackson, while we use 1/4 steps in guitar articulations like bends, it's not considered a measurable distance for notation. *If it was, you'd have something like a

C 1/2 # or E 1/2 flat

however, the smallest we divide our pitches into is half-steps. *Guitar takes a step forward in that we can articulate 1/4 steps (piano cannot). *However, we still don't see it the majority of the time. *Hardly enough to call it the de facto standard.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-14-2001, 10:35 AM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

Quote:
Quote: from welshpete on 7:49 am on Sep. 14, 2001
In Western Music:-

Half steps are considered to be the smallest steps since it is the basis for all scales (most are now equal tempered, but are based on the Pythagorean system - you know some old greek guy) and can be played on pretty much any instrument; and use 12 halftone steps in an octave. *Obviously instruments with discreet pitching - most notably Piano, have half tones as their smallest playable intervals)
Quarter tones can be used - on guitar with bends, unfretted string instruments etc in some situations.
The most commonly used is the 'blues note' *which lies between a minor third and major third - and so is the quarter tone above the minor third.
While guitarists probably use this and other quarter tone bends quite regularly and effectively, on many instruments playin quarter tones can frequently just sound like bad intonation or pitch (just think of someone mutilating a violin!) and so they may be rarely used.

Eastern Music is far more varied in its use of tunings and intervals. Scales made up of 8, 10, 16 equal steps in scale are used in various forms. This gives a much wider palatte to use, but can seem a little uneasy on the ear if (like most of us i guess) you have almost exclusively listened to western music.

As far as using these other tunings are concerned, there are a few instances of western music utilizing this variety, and considering where we are (this board) I guess we should mention MR Vai.

The two examples that come to mind are the middle section on "Deep Down Into the Pain" (or is it Rescue Me or Bury Me?) from SNR where Vai had a guitar designed and made with a 16 note scale (which he called a Xavian scale) to play to create a different feel to the backing.
The other is on "There's Something Dead In Here" from Flexable Leftovers. The melody is played and pitched shifted into 8 equal steps (octatones?) and overlaid. A lot harder to hear what the individual intervals would sound like as they are playing a 12 step melody at these different pitches.

So there ya go...start picking holes.
What about the Jeff Beck step which is something smaller than a 1/4-step?

Sorry, I just wanted to be the first to make a smart-ass remark. *Please don't answer that.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-14-2001, 02:08 PM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

The Jeff Beck step is equal to two welshpete steps.

A welshpete step is an almost imperceptible change where pete is resting his hand (very lighty) on his edge bridge and keeps thinking his intonation is out.....

Sorry this is just a smart alec answer to the smart alec question....

But the point is that the line between microtones and being out of tune is very fine, and also moves about....

Pete
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-14-2001, 02:31 PM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

In reality... anything than a root-fifth and root-octave interval is nearly useless in today's music. *Study extra hard on those... get your hair perfect and you'll be a rock star in no time.

:-)
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-15-2001, 06:39 PM
 
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Lesson 10: *Intervals Complete!

great you're doing this jem7vwh. it's cool to observe the forms this takes amongst diversity.

i would like to mention a few points in My mind while reading this.
microtones, intervals ... whatever the language, it's language. and language is not confined to 1 generation. generations are not confined together to remain the same. Evolution. often the language i need to communicate with those 1000 years before me does not exist in a class directly. it exists in that i am related through evolution as participated in by my dna with all else. their thoughts, teachings, experiences, etc are in a sense ... in me by what i am. i cannot think of any language i've seen that can guide me so well as what is already in me. therefore what is done in notation should often be at my command, not vice versa. so how something sounds to me is an experience i can't really know in my lifetime. i have to remain open minded to all possibilities. so often i cannot know what is 'right' unless i conjour something not directly music. *i should know if i need further divisions within something if what i have is not working. "well, what if you think it works at the time but could have moved on... and comprimised yourself?" because there are many before and after me.
so a dna helix appears, in 4 dimensions i see it as periodic in some sense. at this point i'm amidst periodicity. so i'm not surprised to be near the cosine, and sin waveforms. with these 2 i know that representation of any periodic or nonperiodic waveform may be *formed via fourier series and fourier transform respectively. the important thing being that at any point of sound i have a sense to go anywhere else. the metaphysical weirdnesses that can become quite 'freaky'. similar to someone 'normal' walking in on you and seeing you sitting at a table speaking openly and intensely with what to them simply is thin air (lol).
in the free crossing over between 'micro' and 'macro' an overemphasized something can really shriek. it is a mistake perhaps if i'm guided by what it 'should be'. but for me the shriek is a merely a temporal reaction that the Interpretation/world(s) has changed - that i can quickly adjust to the new reality. some might just opt to say 'cool things come from (mistakes)' etc.
so it's not at all surprising to me that one very thoughtful musical craftsman and explorer has opted to do a string quartet in helicopters. what a thought - his name is Karlheinz Stockhausen and his cool page is at
http://www.stockhausen.org. there is in fact an interview conducted by BJORK there.
computers/synthesizers are at our command to form personal standards, notation, systems, etc.
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