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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
 
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Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

I know all the shapes and stuff so now i want to know how to go from f to e or any key. My guitar teacher didn't know much about keys i think lol. Or do i have to learn the all from the book or what please help . I'm using guitar grimoire book so yeah just wanted to know how to do that and maybe go to some other types of modes. I just herd that steve vai and joe satriani use Lydian mostly thanks.
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 03:19 AM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

you need to know the formula for the mode, in this case, the lydian mode.

the lydian mode is comprosed of;

1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7

those are the intervals. so any "lydian key" you are in is the same.

for example, if you wanna play G lydian, you play those intervals based off G anywhere on the neck and you will have yourself a G lydian mode (or A mixo or E dorian or B minor, but that's all a different story lol).
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 07:42 AM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

The shape stays the same. If you want to play B lydian, then move up to B and play the exact same shape.

Also, G Mixolydian is the same as F Lydian. A Aeolian is the same as F lydian, etc. It's important to play it over a backing track to hear the correlation, and its important to learn all of the major mode shapes to truly be able to utilize it in your playing.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

Lol i've got a lot to learn i dont even know the intervals ... what are intervals :P sorry im very nooby when it comes to this stuff :P
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut View Post
The shape stays the same. If you want to play B lydian, then move up to B and play the exact same shape.

Also, G Mixolydian is the same as F Lydian. A Aeolian is the same as F lydian, etc. It's important to play it over a backing track to hear the correlation, and its important to learn all of the major mode shapes to truly be able to utilize it in your playing.
hey what part of tennneesee do u live in i might be going to live there soon were going to Nashville maybe u can teach me
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 01:54 PM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

Intervals are the 'distance' between notes, both in pitch and in written music.
It's not very hard to learn the names of the intervals, there are a few rules but with a bit of study you shouldn't have any difficulties.
Learn how they sound too and you'll be well on your way to improving your musicianship.

If you need any help in this area just ask.

What everybody else has said about the Lydian scale is correct - practice the scale until you are able to 'see it' on the fretboard and feel it in your fingers. From here it is pretty much a case of moving the whole shape to the relevant starting point on the guitar.

It will serve you well to learn all scales starting at various points on the neck, and starting on different strings - ie not always starting on the lowest string.

This is one of the beauties of guitar - being able to move shapes around without having to change the pattern - try doing that on a brass instrument!
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 04:57 PM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

Like Bahamut note of what other modes fit into whatever key you're learning. For example, F lydian has the same notes as A minor/aoliean, C major/ionian, E phrygian, etc.

Really takes some of the mental load off when you think about how learning 1 mode can translate into 7 others. And don't forget about diatonic chords either.

Also, even though you hear how 'so and so guitarist' uses 'so and so scale' doesn't mean that that's all the guy does. The basic major/minor scales are used FAR more than anything else, and for good reason, they're a lot more 'stable' and overall 'usable' then most of the modes.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 07:34 PM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

I've often wondered if I had what it takes to be a decent guitar teacher.. but unfortunately I'm about 150 miles away in Chattanooga.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-02-2010, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

ok and today i learned the last 3 strings (g,b,e) up and down the fretboard now what should i do any one :P what scale should i learn next.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 09:42 AM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

Learn all the modes, in order.

1 G Ionian (3rd fret)
2 A Dorian (5th fret)
3 B Phrygian (7th fret)
4 C Lydian (8th fret)
5 D Mixolydian (10th fret)
6 E Aeolian (12th fret)
7 F# Locrian (14th fret)

All of these scales contain the exact same notes from the G major scale. For the sake of illustrating the correlation to you, I've indicated both what key the scales are in and your starting fret on the E string. DO NOT over-think the letters, just play these scales starting on the indicated frets to see and hear what I'm talking about.

http://www.theguitarsuite.com/Theory/Guitar-Modes.html

Learning them in order and how they fit together is the most important thing. It will allow you to play all over the neck. Also, find a backing track to play over. A metronome is great and all, but hearing how all of these notes relate to a backing bass line will really train your ear up, and make the statement "All of these scales are the same" make a lot more sense. You can even record yourself thumping a G power chord, or a G Major chord in time for the same effect. I recommend you start in G, for the simple fact that when you start in G you can move straight through all 7 modes in one trip up the neck. It helps a lot for visualizing the way they fit together.

Now for the other important bit, the scale shapes never change. We've talked about playing in G ionian, but lets say you wanted to play in A...

A Ionian (5th fret)
B Dorian (7th fret)
C Phrygian (9th fret)
D Lydian (10th fret)
E Mixolydian (12th fret)
F Aeolian (14th fret)
G Locrian (16th fret)

It's the exact same shapes, and the exact same progression, starting from a different place on the neck. Awesome eh?

Next, (meaning AFTER you learn all 7 modes) learn the major and minor pentatonic scale (all positions), again knowing all the positions will allow you to play all over the neck in any given key.

THEN, (meaning after modes and pentatonics are old hat) Learn the more exotic stuff, Harmonic minor, melodic minor, etc. Here's a great selection of bizarro guitar scales to play with.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/exotic_guitar_scales.html

Again the most important thing (and I can't stress this enough) is to learn them in all positions. Wailing away in one position of any given scale will not get you anywhere. The only other advice I have to offer you right now (And this will probably get me shot by all of the mathematicians on jemsite =p) is...

Disregard the alphabet as much as possible. All this talk of intervals and notes and math and letters and calculus is the most confusing and in my opinion unnecessary thing to a newer guitarist. Once you have these scales in your head and under your fingers it will make so much more sense. For the time being, just learn the scale shapes based on the first note on the E string. Once you have them down, you can start picking apart scale structure and intervals and it will make much more sense, and be much more usable to you, but learn the shapes first.

It's like learning a new language. As a small child, you learn the simple words and phrases well before you learn how the words are formed or spelled, or how to diagram a sentence, or write a sonnet. Learn about music the same way, and you'll have much greater success.

Lol, I never thought I'd see the day where I was posting about modal theory on the internet.. it must be snowing in hell.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

wow dude thanks for this :P uh i dont know what to say but ile learn them then post a video of me playing this lol
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 01:16 PM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magical Muffin View Post
Like Bahamut note of what other modes fit into whatever key you're learning. For example, F lydian has the same notes as A minor/aoliean, C major/ionian, E phrygian, etc.

Really takes some of the mental load off when you think about how learning 1 mode can translate into 7 others. And don't forget about diatonic chords either.

Also, even though you hear how 'so and so guitarist' uses 'so and so scale' doesn't mean that that's all the guy does. The basic major/minor scales are used FAR more than anything else, and for good reason, they're a lot more 'stable' and overall 'usable' then most of the modes.
No problem man. I've always thought the best way to learn is to teach, so I'm happy to try to help.

Also, this quote is not entirely accurate. A study of the modes will also yield a full understanding of both the major and minor scales, as they are both contained within the modes.

Ionian = Major scale
Aeolian = Minor scale.

The modes are basically different "flavors" if you will of the major scale, and they all have either a major or a minor "flavor".

Ionian - Major
Dorian - Minor
Phrygian - Minor
Lydian - Major
Mixolydian - Major
Aeolian - Minor
Locrian - Major

Use any one of these modes as your starting point (as in, if you're playing in g, use the phrygian shape in g) to get that sound. So, if you want to use G phrygian then you would use this progression:

G Phrygian (3rd fret)
A Lydian (5th fret)
B Mixolydian (7th fret)
C Aeolian (9th fret)
D# Locrian (11th fret)
E Ionian (12th fret)
F Dorian (14th fret)

This logic can be applied to any mode of the major scale. So, if you want to play a minor scale, start with Aeolian and progress to Locrian, Ionian, Dorian etc...

Last edited by Bahamut; 01-03-2010 at 05:18 PM. Reason: whoops.
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 03:42 PM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

Sure, the modes contain the same notes as the scale from which they descend but ultimately they are altogether different scales, with their own distinctive tonalities.

The word tonality is important here - it is the order of tones and semitones that give every scale it's character.

I find some of the advice in this thread a little confusing - and I know my scales inside out!

This is not a personal attack on anybody here - the topic of modes is confusing naturally.

There are lots of ways of explaining modes, and lots of ways to get your head around them for yourself.

I'd have a go at explaining, but I don't think the thread starter asked for it......
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 08:36 PM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

Say what?
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 11:11 PM
 
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Re: Ok today i learned all of f lydian scale

I think what he is driving at is that to actually create a feeling or whatever in music the actual note played isn't all that important. Sure a playing up high some trimuphant and playing low sounds darker.

But what really creates a certain sound of feeling is the intervals. The order you play the notes in. The minor 3rd sounds like the minor 3rd no matter where you play it.

E Phrygian doesn't really sound anything like C Major (or A minor), despite the fact that they contain all the some notes, because the order of the notes are different.

He was also pointing out that the modes aren't merely derivites of the Major and/or Minor scale but scales in their own right as well.
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