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post #46 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-12-2005, 05:57 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

also,
when using real amps and mics, the learning curve is very high. it helps u become a better studio person.
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post #47 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-12-2005, 07:01 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeydahlia
My point,

With Xt you don't need all that crap..

JoeyDahlia
My point,

Even with it, I suspect you'd have tonal problems..

DrewPeterson

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post #48 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-12-2005, 07:04 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

quite simply, it lacks tube warmth.

It's nice. but not tube niiiiiice.
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post #49 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-12-2005, 08:28 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

^
very true. i have sold off my xt pro to start playing on tube amps.

@joey:: all guitar people like vai, petrucci and ALL other gods use tube amps for recording. justify that ?
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post #50 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-12-2005, 09:43 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

Well, to be frank, you can get better tones out of an XT than the er, stuff Vai and Petrucci wring out of their tube amp rigs. JoeyDahlia isn't in that place yet though.

That said, a PODxt can never compete with a good tube amp setup in the hands of someone with good ears/taste and the know-how.
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post #51 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-12-2005, 11:52 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

There is a reason why most people prefer tubes to modeling amps. The distortion profile that tubes produces is one that is "natural", and the ones modeling amps produce is "close to as natural as possible". Unnatural can sound cool to a person, but most people prefer natural. The difference is very subtle. It reminds me of the "uncanny valley" idea in robotics.

Anyway, it's not about right or wrong. It's about personal preference.
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post #52 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-13-2005, 03:12 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrie
It reminds me of the "uncanny valley" idea in robotics.
I think I can speak for most of us here saying I've got a rather minimal working knowledge of robotics theory - care to elaborate?
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post #53 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-13-2005, 03:55 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

How it would apply in this scenario: A lot of people don't mind hearing whacked out digital guitar tones, but don't like them when they are very close to natural, but just off enough to give you a negative feeling about them.
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post #54 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-13-2005, 05:41 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

Ahh... Fascinating. I've always known that on some intuitive level with regards to girls - you know those girls who are JUST shy of being gorgeous, and if you were only to tweak like one feature by the slightest amount, they'd be phenominal looking, but because they're ever so slightly off they're just inexplicably unattractive?

I feel validated, knowing there's a term for that.
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post #55 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-13-2005, 06:11 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

I noticed that phenomenon too drew !

On topic:
I think a real tube amplifier being well recorded can never be beaten by an amp sim. Tubes are infinately complex in the way they "create" the sound. Computing power can never cope with it.
On top of that, sample rates are too low on most models. a quick explanation:
Humans hear from about 20Hz to 20KHz.
A samplerate of 44KHz ( CD quality ) can capture sound of up to 22KHz. Which seems enough.
In reality, there are a lot of harmonics going on in the guitar string vibration. These harmonics add character to the guitar sound. A digital device with a sampling rate of 44KHz can never capture a lot of those harmonics while a tube amp can.
Therefore, a digital simulation will always sound a bit bland and dull, while tubes will sound more organic and alive.

HOWEVER:
For people on a budget, or without the equipment or facilities to record a guitar amp in a good way... These devices are way cool !
And they're getting better every day !
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post #56 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-13-2005, 07:47 PM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
Ahh... Fascinating. I've always known that on some intuitive level with regards to girls - you know those girls who are JUST shy of being gorgeous, and if you were only to tweak like one feature by the slightest amount, they'd be phenominal looking, but because they're ever so slightly off they're just inexplicably unattractive?

I feel validated, knowing there's a term for that.
We've worked on that a lot in the software field too.

There was a push a few years ago to attempt to make customer service software that would feel like a human to users who emailed it. It would respond in a letter format and close with "Sincerely, Customer Support". People really liked it. It was a lot easier to use and it didn't use jargon. But it was still obviously a computer.

When programmers tried to make the software even more human it totally backfired. People do not like being told jokes or asked how their family is by a computer. The close replication of human behavior creeps us out, and the lack of any real perceived compassion is irritating.

The conclusion made was that we want our technology to be easy, but we do not really want our computers to act like us.
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post #57 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

Well here is another remix I did with the Xt

http://65.254.79.230/bed5.mp3

The note's are crystal clear..I do think to each his own,But listen to how clear this is.Some of you know I have no recording skills.

JoeyDahlia
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post #58 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 10:58 AM
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

I thought with the XT you didn't need any?
Yet you still post stuff..joy..
Why not do a completely DRY take so people can hear the tone exclusively instead of the smoke and mirrors of reverb and chorus?
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post #59 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bammbamm
I thought with the XT you didn't need any?
Yet you still post stuff..joy..
Why not do a completely DRY take so people can hear the tone exclusively instead of the smoke and mirrors of reverb and chorus?
I have tried that,and yuk a rooskie..lol

It's Nasty ,even if I ad verb after the recording...

JoeyDahlia
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post #60 of 198 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 12:07 PM
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Re: Real Tube vs Amp Simulation (tone test)

It's got to start with a good straight tone, the rest is just icing. After reading through alot more posts, we all know how infatuated you are with the XT, but it's not right for everyone, yet it seems to be a religious experience for you. I'm glad you've found your "way", but "tone" it down a little for everyone else's sake. I see posts in other threads when someone asks advice and you post, "Just get an XT and it will solve all your problems", sorry, but, no, it won't. I didn't think your first clip (in this thread) was that bad, not my kind of music, but if it turns you on, then it is good, it's all subjective.

I'm using digital (Rocktron, never was a POD fan) too, for the same reason, it's easy to get a good (not great) sound to disk, but unless you've experienced a cranked tube amp and/or recorded through good speakers and mic to tape, I have to say you are missing something.

Oh, he!!, maybe I'm just old... These kids today, they think McDonalds is fine dining

Roger
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