tuning to 432 vs 440 - big difference? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-27-2001, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440 - big difference?

I was watching a show on our public access station about geo-music, theories about how it was used in the construction of pyramids, carl munck and whatnot, and the host was talking about how the old standard of tuning was a=432. *I haven't tried it yet, but what kind of difference will this make in the overall sound the band if everyone changes the tuning? *Will it even be noticable?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-27-2001, 07:04 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

If everyone changes, I assume it would only be noticeable if someone (in standard) tried to play along.

I have a couple music theory books that deal with these crazy acoustics figures and overtone series and whatnot, and I can't comprehend a whole lot of it. I'm not sure if tuning 'out of tune' would screw up the overtone series, but I highly doubt anything disastrous would occur.

-Justin
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-27-2001, 08:20 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

Kinda like when you're trying to play along with something on a really old cassette tape deck and it's just a few cents out of tune. *You can't tell until you plug your guitar in, and then oh man the horror! *
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-27-2001, 10:52 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

VH used to tune down to *something approximating Eb* ;-)

You'd get a slightly heavier sound, naturally. *Slightly looser strings, etc.

But overtones are relative.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-28-2001, 03:52 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

i thought VH used to slow the tape, not detune. i'm sure someone here knows for sure.
about overtones, they're relative, because their frecuencies are multiples of the original ( ie 440->880...etc)
i don't know much about music theory, but it's all physics. vibrating strings can be represented by differential equations, which are solved by sinusoidal functions. basically the sin of an angle is zero if the angle is zero, but also in any entire multiple of pi, which is the explanation of the overtone series being entire multiples of the original frecuency.

-geek mode off-
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-28-2001, 08:48 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

I'm with Jester here....

I used to have 2 wolfgangs (gasp!), one tuned normal (440) and one a semi-tone down, so I could play all the VH songs.

Some sounded in tune with the CD, some did not...especially "Best of Both Worlds!" *That song NEVER sounded in tune!



later,
Chris
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-29-2001, 04:06 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

You find classical-style musicians play with this idea. *Search Yahoo for Kyle Gann or Dante Rosati; they're into something called well-tempered tuning that retunes almost every note. *Tuning your guitar to A-432 will make it sound flatter. *There is a more-longwinded response about beats between dissonant notes, but I have a chemistry thesis to write now.

read the web pages.

-Devin
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-29-2001, 11:01 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

Prolem is, you can't do that easily on a polyphonic fretted instrument.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-29-2001, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

Wow Devin...fascinating stuff on kyle gann. *I'm gonna read up on rosati tomorrow, but i saw that guitar he made...crazy!
Its amazing how trained we are to the compromised tuning of traditional instruments...
The rack tuner we use only allows to detune to 438, anyway. I didn't realize that when I posted originally.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-30-2001, 05:33 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

I belive that most symphony orchestras tunes to some frequency lower than 440. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-30-2001, 06:51 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

one orcestra here in wexio sweeden usually tunes to 440, but the other day they tried 441, and they thought is was a difference.. *a brighter overall sound.. *
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-07-2001, 05:51 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

Quote:
caprile on 6:52 pm on Nov. 28, 2001
i thought VH used to slow the tape, not detune.
VH tuned down a half step to E flat, sometimes with dropped D on top of that. *On the DLR stuff he did for sure, not sure about the newer stuff.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-10-2001, 08:38 AM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

OK folks here's my $0.02

As far as tuning down to 432 is concerned, yes it will make a small difference to your tone, since the harmonic series of the note will all be slightly lower in frequency. As devine sid, there is a complex explanation involving beats et al.....

Also, guitars use equal temperament scales, which is a best case fit, in order to play in every key. If you wanted to play in true perfect pitch you either need....(a) a fretless instrument and a phenominally good ear (like really good concert string players) or (b) a different guitar for every key....and not just tuned differently, the fret spacing would be microscopically different too....

Anyway, that's all physics and I had enough of that while studying (though i can dig it out if people are THAT interested).



If i remember correctly, Van Halen used to tune his guitar by ear, not a tuner, just so that it was in with itself, then Mike Anthony would tune his bass to that, then off you go.....it is roughly a semitone flat, but wanders a little from song to song, album to album. On stuff with Keyboards in (Jump etc) they tuned to concert (440).

Thats why you need two guitar to play along - and even then some of them are a little off.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-10-2001, 10:54 AM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

Or, you could just pitch shift your CD player's output... ;-)

Different guitar for every key won't work, though - what if you modulate? *Boom - you're done.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-10-2001, 12:08 PM
 
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tuning to 432 vs 440

Exactly the point I was making, Since if you tune all the intervals perfectly for , say C major, then it will only be perfectly in tune for that key - all others wil be slightly out....

Hence why equal temperament is used...

Pete
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