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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Using Lydian Mode

I've been trying to work this for ages, but I really need help. What sort of chord progressions could you use a Lydian mode over? That flat 5 is really messing with me.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 10:24 PM
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

It's actually a #4 (1,2,3,#4,5,6,7). Try jamming out a progression starting in C, moving to Em, and then to G major. Play the G major scale over it. It'll sound Lydian over C, Aeolian over Em, and Ionian over G.

Oh, and listen to Satch's "Flying In a Blue Dream". The song is heavy on Lydian mode.

Last edited by dcord; 02-19-2010 at 10:29 PM.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 10:39 PM
tyg
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

I'm going to take a shot at this because I'm trying to learn theory on my own and maybe I can get some help here too.

Lydian is the 4th mode of a major scale, I'm going to pick A major,

A Major
B Dorian
C# Phrygian
D lydian
E mixolydian
F# Aeolian
G# locrian

So I think if you want to use a D lydian Scale you could play it over some sort of an "A Major" progression and the notes will fit right in. I think in Jazz they use a lot of 7th cords so maybe try major or minor 7ths or maybe chords from an A major scale with a "D" base to lead to your Lydian lead( I think they are called slash chords). Try a II-V-I chord progression using 7ths.


Now someone please let me know if I am anywhere near a right answer.

and in Lydian I think you should refer to it as a Sharp 4th instead of a Flat 5th
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 10:56 PM
tyg
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcord View Post
It's actually a #4 (1,2,3,#4,5,6,7). Try jamming out a progression starting in C, moving to Em, and then to G major. Play the G major scale over it. It'll sound Lydian over C, Aeolian over Em, and Ionian over G.

Oh, and listen to Satch's "Flying In a Blue Dream". The song is heavy on Lydian mode.
So dcord what you are saying is a Gmajor scale will sound lydian over a C chord because C is the fourth degree of G major and sound minor over E because E is the 6th degree?

Making a Major scale sound like a mode, thats a way I've never looked at it.
So much to learn!!!
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 11:37 PM
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

tyg, you've almost got it, except if you play D Lydian over a progression based on A major, it'll sound major if you use A as the tonic. Instead think of the progression a being centered on D, so the I chord would be D, the #IV chord is G# (actually a minor 7b5), and the V chord is A. D Lydian will still sound Locrian over the G# and Ionian over A.

You could try doing this to get the feel of the Lydian mode as well: play a chord progression that is completely modal - C5, A5, D5, F5 for four measures each. Then use the G major, E major, A major, and C major scales over each of those. You'll be jamming in Lydian the entire time!

There are a couple of ways to look at modes, but in the end, it's more how the notes *sound* that matters, not how you find the scale.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 11:45 PM
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyg View Post
I'm going to take a shot at this because I'm trying to learn theory on my own and maybe I can get some help here too.

Lydian is the 4th mode of a major scale, I'm going to pick A major,

A Major
B Dorian
C# Phrygian
D lydian
E mixolydian
F# Aeolian
G# locrian
This is a great way to learn the sound of any mode. Play the A major scale over the chords in A major (A, Bm, C#m, D, E7, F#m, G#m7b5). Play each chord for two or three measures under the A major scale. You'll hear the mode change from Major (Ionian) to Dorian to Phrygian to Lydian and so forth.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 12:05 AM
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyg View Post
So dcord what you are saying is a Gmajor scale will sound lydian over a C chord because C is the fourth degree of G major and sound minor over E because E is the 6th degree?
Exactly.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 12:11 AM
tyg
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

thanks for the explanation, I understand it now.

except the harmonized major scales chart I have says E major being the V chord and G#dim being the VII chord(G#mb5?) so where do the 7s come in (E7, G#m7b5)?

Promise this will be my last question, didn't mean to hijack thread, going to go bury my head in a theory book now
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 07:47 AM
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

I'm not fully sure what your question is but I'm gonna have a go at explaining it anyway .
Ok, so we're in A major and we have a chord triad based around the fifth (which is E major) and a chord triad based around the seventh (G# diminished OR G# Minor with a flattened fifth). Do you understand why the G# triad has a flattened fifth? If not, it's because of the fifth of G# being D#, which isn't in the key of A major *(see below for more info.)
So now we've established where these chords have come from, we've just found 2 triads that belong to A major (V and VII). It's now time to play around with these a bit, and in your case we're talking about adding sevenths. So, when you use A major, and add a seventh to the triad we took from the fifth degree, it turns the chord to a DOMINANT SEVENTH. This might seem strange, but REMEMBER, we're not in E major, we're in A major.
Comparing the two from A to G:

A major: A, B, C#, D , E, F#, G#
E major: A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#

We have a D# in E major, where that D is just a standard (natural) D in A major's case.

So when we add a seventh to an E major triad in both keys it does this:

A major: E, G#, B, D This is an E dominant seven (an E with a little seven above it),
E major: E, G#, B, D# This is an E MAJOR seven (written E maj7 if I remember correctly).

You may be asking: "Yeah, ok, I see that. But why should I care about sevenths and other chord 'extensions?'"
Remember, this is music. If you take a simple chord progression (II, V, I, for example) and make all the chords in here sevenths (or even add other notes if your a smart .... :P) you'll get a completely different vibe from the progression. This is very useful when your trying to make your music:
A) Sound awesome
B) Impress other musicians with INSANE chords xD

Remember, extended chords will only work in certain places. Where these 'places' are is down to you, it's your choice, because you're the musician writing the song or composition!

Moving on to the G# triad, I'll map out the keys and then the triads beneath:

A major: A, B, C#, D , E, F#, G#
E major: A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#

Triad
G# in A major: G#, B, D This is a G# Diminished triad (1, Minor 3, Flattened fifth)
G# in E major: G#, B, D# This is a G# Minor triad (1, Minor 3, Natural Fifth)

Adding the seventh:

G# in A major: G#, B, D , F# (This is called a G# minor seven flat five, which is [1, Minor 3, Flat 5, Minor 7] written G#m7b5)

G# in E major: G#, B, D#, F# (This is G# Minor seven, written G#m7)


Hope this helped! I'll probably edit this a little to neaten it up a bit but there you go. The only other thing I'll say is that at some point you may want to use a triad that doesn't completely fit in A major (e.g. G#m7) to give some CHROMATIC harmony, I won't go into this now as it's complicated, and I will say don't go into chromatic harmony yourself until your more than comfortable with diatonic chord progressions. Just get this down to a point where your comfortable with the concepts, only then should you start messing about with bits of those concepts!

Last edited by Guitarist-Jonny; 02-20-2010 at 07:48 AM. Reason: Presentation :)
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 07:49 AM
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

Oh, and if you have any other questions, PM me or post here!
Thanks
Regards
Jon
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

That is just incredible. I'm starting to think I might need someone to teach me this stuff properly.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 09:27 AM
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyg View Post
thanks for the explanation, I understand it now.

except the harmonized major scales chart I have says E major being the V chord and G#dim being the VII chord(G#mb5?) so where do the 7s come in (E7, G#m7b5)?

Promise this will be my last question, didn't mean to hijack thread, going to go bury my head in a theory book now
Pretty much what Jonny said. You just harmonize the major scale up to the sevenths, so you're just stacking another third on there: 1-3-5-7. The chords work out as follows: I-maj7, ii-min7, iii-min7, IV-maj7, V-dom7, vi-min7, vii-min7b5. In A, the chords are Amaj7, Bm7, C#m7, Dmaj7, E7, F#m7, and G#m7b5.

Hope this helps. Now, go practice Lydian!

~d~
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 12:06 PM
tyg
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by skins345669 View Post
That is just incredible. I'm starting to think I might need someone to teach me this stuff properly.
+1, Great stuff. Thanks.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 07:10 PM
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

Theory can be explained from basics. For example, learning your intervals and learning your first major scale shape on guitar can allow you to work out the notes that belong to that major scale and any other major scale for that matter- just take some time and think about it, maybe even write everything down a million +1 times ! May be an idea to post a theory thread for every jemsiter in a similar situation to you guys, what does everyone think? Would there be an issue with the fact that theory book publishers would lose business from anyone that visits Jemsite?
Thanks
Regards
Jon
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 10:55 PM
tyg
 
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Re: Using Lydian Mode

Guitarist-Jonny, if you start a theory thread I'd definitely follow along, trying to learn theory on you own is tough.
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