The value of Scale Box Pattern Learning? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-24-2002, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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The value of Scale Box Pattern Learning?

Ok, not sure this is in the right section but...

Ok, I started out learning the box patterns and found them to be useful if you wanted to play a box in many different keys, but found it hard for me to connect them. So I started learning whole fretboard keys at a time and actually found this to be faster and gives much quicker results at knowing how to solo solidly and easily with no thought... however there are no boxes to move to different keys so it limits you for a while until you learn every key... so for me, I see the value of boxes but prefer the solid foundation of knowing the whole particular key on the whole fretboard.

I want to hear others thoughts on this and their experiences?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2002, 01:20 AM
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I just stick to the grimoire, especially if you like to sweep pick, it outlines the shapes and the positions so basically for you its like connect the dots. The box patterns I like to know, but I tend to think about the dynamics of the shape more. THat helps me play how I want , but not always what I want. lol
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2002, 04:20 PM
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are you reffering to the C A G E D system when you say Box system???

IE. Each letter C A G etc. has its own chord pattern and scale layout so in the key of C there is a C layout an A layout and a G layout up and down the neck???

If so, I think that it is these that have helped me get to my relatively advanced level as quickly as I have, even If I do have to blow my own trumpet... But in a way its not me blowing my own trumpet, coz its a testement to how good my guitar teacher is as well (about 2 years playing)


I also have nothing better to do with my time... so thats probably a major part as well
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 09:47 AM
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Remember to play scales on one string at a time, too! That REALLY helps.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr Orange
Remember to play scales on one string at a time, too! That REALLY helps.
I've heard Joe talk about this, but I have no idea the value of this? I learned the scales a whole fretboard at a time... is there a value for me to make scales on each string? Is it the point of calling out the notes of the scale? confused....
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 02:28 PM
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Doing light speed runs up and down the board on 1 string will tell you real fast if you "really" know the board or not.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rich
Doing light speed runs up and down the board on 1 string will tell you real fast if you "really" know the board or not.
oh yes... definitley, I've been doing this since I went through Vinnie Moore's speed, accuracy and articulation video. I do it both on one, two, three etc etc all the way to seven strings with various long runs. Definitely one of the best for knowing the board.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 02:46 PM
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Yeah, and legato runs up and down the neck on a single string, with lots of bends, slides, trills, etc. sound BADASS.

Incedentally, once you learn all your "pattern" scales, spending some time learning linear (single string) scales will help you effortlessly flow between the positions, until pretty soon you're not really even thinking of them that much. This is a good thing.

Also, some scales just make a lot more sense when you don't think about "patterns." If you asked me to play you a half-whole diminished scale in a fixed pattern, i'd look at you funny, then spend a few minutes working it out. Yeah, i know, i really should know this. But if you asked me to improvise in the diminished mode, then i could rip off a series of runs fairly free-associatively, because the half-step-whole-step pattern makes a LOT more sense when you don't try to confine it to a single pattern. Same goes for the whole tone scale.

So yeah, learning pentatonics in a position is extremely valuable, and the easiest way to look at them. but some scales make a lot more sense to your fingers out of a pattern.

You know, this really didn't answer your question, did it? lol, sorry... Hope it helps anyway.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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I got your point, and some very good points in there as well!

I definitley know many patterns... cause they are useful... but also using the scale steps with certian scales(you mentioned two above) are definitely easy to do...

great points and point of view!

I guess one thing is for sure, patterns(boxes), whole board and using scale steps all have their place...
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 03:42 PM
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how do you learn your scales then? if you don't learn them in boxes?

- you make a study of a picture with the whole fretboard with every note of the ionian mode?
- you learn the intervals and start from the root and apply your intervals?

I won't learn them in boxes, so how do i have to learn then?
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2002, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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how I learn them is, I bought an Ernie Ball Fretboard chart book. Its like a tab book but has fretboards in it instead. I then put dots all over the board for say the C Major scale!

Now I recommend you learn the C major first, and also memorize every note on the board in the c major scale(its all the natural notes no accidentals like C# or Eb).

how do you learn it? what I do is kinda take small parts of it at first, say frets 0 through 7 and then 7 thru 12. Everything repeats after the 12th fret. So what do I do? I sequence the scales, I play triplets or just run up and down the scale anyway I want just to get the notes to sink in. After the notes sink in then you can really start exploring the scale.

At the same time I'm exploring a particular scale I also learn its harmonization chords and create songs from them and use the scale to solo over them.

now what have you learned in doing this? Well in learning this one scale across the whole board you actually know 7 different scales or modes!

C Ionian(commonly known as the major scale).
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G MixoLydian
A Aeolian(commonly known as the natural minor scale).
B Locrian

And if you take the harmonization to its extreme you've learned how to play songs in 7 different keys! Each mode can be harmonized to its own key... anyhoo it would take many lessons to go into this in depth... but patterns didn't work for me, but obviously they do work for many!

Learning the modes seperate isn't necessary, its easy to get any mode you need just from the major scales you memorize. This all seems to much at first, but not as bad as learning all them boxes!!! but its not that bad, however I know people learn differently so while this was easiest for me, it may not be for everyone.
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