Low-balling, how low is too low? - Page 2 - Jemsite
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post #16 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 03:19 AM
 
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

I share your frustration. All you can do is keep looking and keep an internet alert active.
If its a site like the absurdly overpriced Greenwoods just forget it and move on.
Good luck...which guitar is it btw ?
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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 05:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

I've sent you a PM Al, Ithese beasties are rather rare so I'm still hedging my bets. Anyone else who's interested I'm happy to share, just not on 'open channels' in case I get sniped But on the advice here I might chase after some private deals rather than store boughts.

I might even see if I can chase down one of the ones I've already missed!
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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

Oh and, this dealer is definitely happy to sit on inventory. It might mean I can whittle them down over time
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post #19 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-24-2017, 08:02 AM
 
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

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Originally Posted by jemsite View Post
local store... go in face to face offer cash.

The only real way to "low ball" someone (cut price in half) is to have them at a huge advantage at the right time... they are desperate to clear stock to pay bills typically.
This could work depending on the size of the store. Smaller stores would be more likely to see a benefit in a cash deal. End of month or end of quarter would be a good time to try.
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post #20 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 09:52 PM
 
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

I was told by a dealer their markup on used guitars/gear was usually 100+% what they paid for the item. Dealers do not like to sit on inventory but they will not give it away either unless the circumstances are particularly unusual. I am not sure what guitar jono is after but I agree that perhaps finding one through other avenues might be better. Do dealers blindly use eBay to determine the market value of an item in the U.K? Specifically, similar items sold within the past 90 days? Just curious.
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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 10:02 PM
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

Not to be redundant but auctions are and will always be wholesale marketplaces, where often you'll find 2 private buyers butting heads and you will find retail results [note the $6200 pawn shop LNG this month], and sometimes higher. If you're using ebay to price you're looking at what typical private to private sales bring, not what dealers should be pricing at.

And most dealers want to get 100% profit because they beat you up so hard on the trade value, or outright purchase. We've all heard 1000 stories of GC offering $300 for an $800 guitar. If I can ever buy something I can double, or triple on, it was a buy it now I caught first, and I'll get a couple a year. Every now and then something will sell for 1/2 retail on open bidding, and I'll get a few of those a year also [keep sleeping boys]. But more typical is 30-50%, which still beats margins on New guitars, but also require thrice as much work.
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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2017, 02:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

Thanks for the further replies guys.

The trouble I'm having here is that the guitar in question is, as I understand it, very rare, but not that sought after. I'm just trying to,relive my youth with this one.

I've seen just 4 in the last year or more, two of which I know where they are but the dealer won't budge, two went for roughly half the dealer price in gumtree.

Not sure when I'll see another one. However, for 800 years have I taught Jedi, so I can wait another few months...
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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2017, 03:12 AM
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

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Not sure when I'll see another one. However, for 800 years have I taught Jedi, so I can wait another few months...
Why didn't you remind us that have forgotten?!

Of course. Just walk into the store and say "You will sell me that guitar for $500 pounds", and he will say "I will sell you that guitar for $500 pounds", there's an awkward silence as he rings you up in a trance, and off you go. It's not really the dark side, more like, dusk
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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-29-2017, 05:08 PM
 
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

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Not sure when I'll see another one. However, for 800 years have I taught Jedi, so I can wait another few months...
Can you? Strong you are with the Force, but not that strong.
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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-30-2017, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

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Can you? Strong you are with the Force, but not that strong.
Difficult to see, always in motion is the future.
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post #26 of 57 (permalink) Old 04-30-2017, 04:45 AM
 
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

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Difficult to see, always in motion is the future.
I have a bad feeling about this!
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post #27 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 05:42 PM
 
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

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Not to be redundant but auctions are and will always be wholesale marketplaces, where often you'll find 2 private buyers butting heads and you will find retail results [note the $6200 pawn shop LNG this month], and sometimes higher. If you're using ebay to price you're looking at what typical private to private sales bring, not what dealers should be pricing at.
This seems like somewhat of a simplistic view on the market for used guitars. To suggest that a dealer should always price higher would require most or all of these conditions to be met:

1. The dealer has guitars that are not easily available through the common marketplaces
2. The buyer is unaware of the online markets
3. The buyer is not price sensitive
4. The buyer does not want to wait for a guitar to become available
5. The buyer inherently trusts the dealer in a way they wouldn't trust an unknown private seller


That puts a fair amount of pressure on a dealer to target a certain niche customer and sell themselves as a value-add. I am reasonably certain that I could not sell a guitar for as much as you could, no matter how long I sat on it. I lack both the credibility and relationships to do it. That said, the difference between dealer price and auction price would probably begin to converge the further we got from collectible Jems and the closer we got to used RG1570's.
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post #28 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 06:11 PM
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

You can analyze this any way you want but I've been buying at public auction since I was 18, long before there was an internet, and at those auctions 90+% of all sales were to dealers. The further you get toward the present that % will go down because of easier access to armchair auction buyers, but it still doesn't change what auctions at their center always were, a wholesale marketplace for dealers, where yes, privates are welcome and affect the pricing, especially when 2 privates with knowledge fight something out. But I can still guarantee you, if I go to a Bonhams sale in NY 75% of the buying audience is a dealer buying for inventory. The only thing that has changed is the internet makes it easier to find specific things where before you'd get a catalog in the mail and have to find them yourself.
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post #29 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 06:20 PM
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

I should add that in Japan, no private is even allowed access. Auctions are for credentialed dealers only. Which is why Yahoo Japan got so much traffic, but now the prices are getting so steep basically dealers cannot buy there, with very rare exception when something falls thru the cracks.
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post #30 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 06:23 PM
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Re: Low-balling, how low is too low?

Calling auctions "wholesale marketplaces" in the context of guitars is generally true for new production model guitars widely available worldwide. Amazon is a good example of this (they have "amazon sellers" all racing to the bottom of pricing).

That doesn't mean a dealer won't offer good prices or even better than some auctions.

For used and limited availability guitars/items it's probably not generally true imho.
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