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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-20-2003, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
RGN
 
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4 Ohm Cabs

I just bought a Genz-Benz 4X12 Cab with Celestions. My guitar tech suggested wiring it to 4 Ohms to get a little extra low end at low volumes. I have been using 16 Ohm cabs for years. Any thoughts or experiences? I know I won't be able to run 2 4 Ohm cabs at once.

I am using a VHT 100CL head.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-20-2003, 07:21 PM
 
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Hmmm.
I guess your amp has selectable impedance or multiple speaker outputs, probably 4 and 8 ohms. You can drive the 16 ohm cab from the 8 ohm jack, like you've probably done so far. In that case, you experience some power loss, some say around 10 watts or so, I'm not an amp tech so don't take my word for it. With a 4 ohm cab such thing wouldn't happen, so it'd actually be louder at the same settings as the 16 ohm cab. I don't really know if there would be any extra bottom end. If you run the 16 ohm cab you'd basically have to turn the amp up slightly more than when using a 4 ohm, which would drive the power amp tubes a bit harder, which in turn is good for your tone (tube amps like to get some juice flowing in their guts, in case someone hasn't noticed ). With the 4 ohm you might end up with slighty less beefy tone because you'd have to keep the master vol at a lower setting... Well, it kinda depends what is "low" volume for you.

I'd say: experiment. Trust your ears and all will be revealed to you.
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2003, 06:50 AM
 
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Hey ho

Your tech is correct..at low volumes there is a slight increase in what one percieves as "low end". This is not due to in itself to just the 4ohm impedence but how a 4x12 is wired to 4 ohms with 16ohm drivers is the key.

To get 4 ohms all the speakers will have to be wired in parallel ..the simple fact that is apparent when the cab is wired this way is that the poweramp section of a good valve amp will react to each and every speaker in the chain.. a total of "4" similar back emf's (reaction of cone on coil producing a small emf) being produced.. effect...more back emf = more damping = tighter low end = percieved "more" low end at low volumes..

Its not major difference but if you have one only 1 cab it loads the amp in the same way as using 2 series parrallel wired cabs which i like

HTH

Rich
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-28-2003, 12:38 AM
 
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All I can say is that I've always had my speakers wired to 4ohms and it sounds fine to me! You can sometimes get a slight increase in "low end" by switching to a thicker gauge speaker cable (outside and inside your cab).
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-28-2003, 02:51 AM
 
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Guys, you crack me up. Don't try to speculate about things you don't know jack about.
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-28-2003, 04:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microdmitry
Guys, you crack me up. Don't try to speculate about things you don't know jack about.
Hehe yea ..err whatever
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-28-2003, 01:02 PM
 
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What I'm saying is that there are 2 different variants of wiring a four speaker cab for 4 ohm with commonly available speakers. 4x16ohm all in parallel, and two pairs of 4ohm speakers wired in series and then in parallel. There indeed will be difference, but this difference will be so marginal, you may not hear it at all, because it will be only due to differences in voice coil windings an not because of how you wired the cab. And speaker manufacturers make speakers with different coil impedances as close sounding as technically possible, which means very, very close.

As to getting more low end with 4 ohm - this is another BS. If your amp has presence control (and it does), this will make no difference whatsoever, as negative feedback loop (a fancy term for presence control ) will compensate the marginal frequency response changes this may introduce.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-28-2003, 03:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microdmitry
What I'm saying is that there are 2 different variants of wiring a four speaker cab for 4 ohm with commonly available speakers. 4x16ohm all in parallel, and two pairs of 4ohm speakers wired in series and then in parallel. There indeed will be difference, but this difference will be so marginal, you may not hear it at all, because it will be only due to differences in voice coil windings an not because of how you wired the cab. And speaker manufacturers make speakers with different coil impedances as close sounding as technically possible, which means very, very close.

As to getting more low end with 4 ohm - this is another BS. If your amp has presence control (and it does), this will make no difference whatsoever, as negative feedback loop (a fancy term for presence control ) will compensate the marginal frequency response changes this may introduce.
err...did i ask for a lecture ?? i have an ENGL Powerball sitting here just driving one of my old Marshall cabs..its sounds utterly marvelous the cab is wired all in parallel with a mix of 16ohm celestions G12H30s and V30 speaks in an X pattern ..absolute bliss...i have arrived at this sound by listening to good advice ..how are you doing ???
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-28-2003, 04:26 PM
 
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microdmitry-
How do UNchanched settings/features on an AMP affect CHANGED settings/configurations of a speaker cabinet?

Anyways, like I said my cab has always been wired @ 4ohms simply because I once had an amp that would only run that impedance. Only time I noticed a difference in sound from my amp was switching from the OEM 16 gauge cable to a somewhat thicker wire.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-28-2003, 06:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay ratkowski
microdmitry-
How do UNchanched settings/features on an AMP affect CHANGED settings/configurations of a speaker cabinet?

Anyways, like I said my cab has always been wired @ 4ohms simply because I once had an amp that would only run that impedance. Only time I noticed a difference in sound from my amp was switching from the OEM 16 gauge cable to a somewhat thicker wire.

Lo Jay
I found the same thing ...gauge of cable thicker cable = thicker tone/crunch ..the standard Marshall cable is very thin and makes the cab sound bigger but "cleaner" and a bit "harsh" to my ears. I also ditching the stereo switch on the back of this JCM900 cab , definately worth doing, was like removing a blanket ..the jacks had seen some use though so my thoughts are its worth a try.. but it may not yield the same striking results as i found. I also added some foam to the back panel, again a slight difference..tighter..when its driven hard. The Engl cabs come with foam in the back..thought i'd give and old Marshall the same treatment. The Marshall was seriously lacking in comparison to the Engl and i just tried a few things to improve it ..glad i did, i now prefer the Marshall again ..great !!!

..sorting a cab out can be soo cheap to do ..and its really worthwhile having a go. it can be very surprising what can be done.!!

Rich
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-28-2003, 07:17 PM
 
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My old Peavey cab had the same thing... stereo jack as well as a little circuit board for switching the ohm load. I figured it's just more useless junk to break up the signal to the speakers, so I yanked it out and put a higher quality jack in place. Don't know if I'm hearing things or not, but I think it made a difference.

If your cabs are old and have seen abuse like mine, it's also good to go inside and take some silicon apoxy to all the seems to make sure no air is leaking out.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-29-2003, 12:08 AM
 
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Uh-uh, and I bet Monster Cable will make your tone even fatter.
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-29-2003, 12:14 AM
 
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So you think that allowing increased amounts of current to travel to your speakers will not help your tone? Cutting your power loss by as much as 30% is a bad thing?

I'm surprised you're using a computer, you know those things cause cancer...
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-29-2003, 01:17 AM
 
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Did you study physics at all? How does a fatter cable affect frequency response? What should be the difference between cable gauges to cut the power loss 30% (considering that the resistance of the cable is negligible when compared to the impedance of the load connected to it)? Do 30% of 0.1% make any difference to you?
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-29-2003, 04:52 AM
 
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Magic calls itself the other way of controlling space & matter...

I buy the yap about tone changing when using foam on the back panel. I also think air leaks have an effect on how the cab sounds.
But the wire? Hmmm.... I only use thick wire on my cabs so the wire won't fry in any playing situation. My combo seems to have slightly thinner wire. Well, I guess they know their stuff at Rivera.

However, applying gorilla goo on the solder joints seems to emphasize 750Hz a bit, as regular monkey dew seems to cut 3dB on 750 BUT add 1dB to 10kHz, which compensates nicely for my hearing loss...

However: Voodoo works if you believe in it.
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clean tone , engl powerball , eric johnson , guitar tech , ibanez guitars , leo fender , marshall cabs , monster cable , ohm cab , ohm load , ohm output , ohm speaker , ohm speakers , power amp , speaker cab , steve vai , tube amp , tube amps , valve amps

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