50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks - Jemsite
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Hi all,
I am considering getting a new amp for my home use. I currently am using a Laney LC15R with a palmer pdi-03 (a greeeaaatt analog speaker simulator!) which i really love the sound (overdriven tone in particular) when the volume is between 7-10 and I don't use any pedal in front of it. However, I find it lacking just a little bit of dynamic and the sound is not so "open" but compressed in a good way when the amp is pushed hard. I am looking for the older satriani overdriven sound such as the tone he had in:

I believe (this tone is like a dream!)
Just look up (I can get close to this tone but mine is more compressed)
Starry Night (Very nasal but still open i think, hard to get exact like)
(Sorry for my lack of words here!)

I have done a bit of research and I think a 50W with EL34s may get me there as (maybe) the EL84s are kinda bright for satriani's tone (?).

I have tried the Vox Night Train 50 and the sound was good but it was impossible to crank it up at my local guitar centre. I also looked into a Laney LH50R which seems nice but I havent had the chance to try it out. Can anyone recommend me which I should get or if there are better amps with similar wattage in this price range, please share! Thanks!

Sorry for the misleading title here i am looking for an amp head

Last edited by Saldtch; 06-15-2011 at 03:34 AM.
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 12:46 AM
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

how loud you tryin to get O.o

6505 combo may provide you with what you're looking for.

Classic 50 combo as well. Two totally diferent sounds, both equally awesome amps!
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 12:49 AM
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

You can get the tubes singing quicker on a 15 watt amp.



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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 02:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxpenguin View Post
how loud you tryin to get O.o

6505 combo may provide you with what you're looking for.

Classic 50 combo as well. Two totally diferent sounds, both equally awesome amps!
loudness is not my concern as i am running my amp into a palmer which can take 100W RMS so I can run at any volume I want
however size is a problem to me as I am only allowing myself to get a 50W-ish size of amp to put in my room

let me check them out, thx bro, but wonder if i can get any of them here without too much difficulities...
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 02:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaBat View Post
You can get the tubes singing quicker on a 15 watt amp.
yes! my amp sings! but it doesn't sound big enough. That's why I am looking into amps with EL34s and see if they can further improve my sound
thx~
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 03:05 AM
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

50 watts is crazy loud. Get yourself a Blackstar HT-20, or 40 if you must. Great EL34 amps, very versatile.
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 04:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

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Originally Posted by LonePhantom View Post
50 watts is crazy loud. Get yourself a Blackstar HT-20, or 40 if you must. Great EL34 amps, very versatile.
loudness is not a problem to me as I use a speaker simulator. Thx for the info bro! Never thought there is a 20W amp with EL34. Interesting!
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 12:01 PM
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

So, you're planning to use the speaker simulator regardless of the amp you get? Are you mic'ing or needing this for live sound? I've no experience with the Palmer you use, but it's been my experience that dynamics are where almost all speaker simulators meet their match. I wonder if you might run into similar dynamics issues regardless of the amp you use. Again, I don't have experience with that particular Palmer, although I know that Satch has used Palmers in the past and that good results can be had from them. I just find that a live speaker tends to sound more dynamic and alive than the complex EQ in simulators generally.
That said, the Blackstars mentioned are good as would be an old marshall on the used market. What's your budget?
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-15-2011, 05:29 PM
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Those Blackstars have a built in speaker simulator too, so you can use headphones, plug into a PA, direct to PC, etc.
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-16-2011, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth55 View Post
So, you're planning to use the speaker simulator regardless of the amp you get? Are you mic'ing or needing this for live sound? I've no experience with the Palmer you use, but it's been my experience that dynamics are where almost all speaker simulators meet their match. I wonder if you might run into similar dynamics issues regardless of the amp you use. Again, I don't have experience with that particular Palmer, although I know that Satch has used Palmers in the past and that good results can be had from them. I just find that a live speaker tends to sound more dynamic and alive than the complex EQ in simulators generally.
That said, the Blackstars mentioned are good as would be an old marshall on the used market. What's your budget?
Yep that is right. I only need a way that I can play at a controlled volume for recording and practicing and the Palmer works really good for me. The advantage of using a speaker sim I think is huge as the sound field is so easy to get right unlike using a cab that you always have to set the mess with the phase, etc. as I always play in stereo. I think the compensated dynamic is not an issue to me here but the compression of the amp's tubes do to the overall sound. The nice tones that I can get with this amp are always compressed and that's why I am searching for an amp head for that "open" tone.
I definitely will check out the HT-20 but still due to my lack of experience, I wonder if a 20watter would do that for me? My budget is around 700 usd but I think I am willing to spend more if there is a must have amp head for my search. Thanks!
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 09:44 PM
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth55 View Post
So, you're planning to use the speaker simulator regardless of the amp you get? Are you mic'ing or needing this for live sound?

The palmer speaker simulator is the best way to get rid of mics, irritating mics positions to the speakers to get the right sound or in live situations, that your bass player accidentally drop the mic of your cab lol

Palmer is really good, this cover was recorded with a palmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O80ule70zuE



cheers.
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 10:00 PM
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonePhantom View Post
50 watts is crazy loud. Get yourself a Blackstar HT-20, or 40 if you must. Great EL34 amps, very versatile.
Watts is a current measure so it has nothing to do with volume.

OP the more watts it has the more speakers it could feed, more speakers = more air moving.
A 100 watts amp with 2 4x12 cabs is louder than the same amp with only 1 speaker.
That's why stacks are a must at the stage unless you play the blues lol
If you'll use a lot of speakers more watts is better, if you'll use only 1 speaker, it doesn't matter if it has 10 or 100 watts, both will sound almost the same.
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 10:27 PM
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6fingers View Post
Watts is a current measure so it has nothing to do with volume.

OP the more watts it has the more speakers it could feed, more speakers = more air moving.
A 100 watts amp with 2 4x12 cabs is louder than the same amp with only 1 speaker.
That's why stacks are a must at the stage unless you play the blues lol
If you'll use a lot of speakers more watts is better, if you'll use only 1 speaker, it doesn't matter if it has 10 or 100 watts, both will sound almost the same.

watts is voltage. amps is current. Volume is dependent on amperage, voltage and resistance.

lower resistance speakers = louder. More watts = louder. More watts on the speaker = louder before "distorting".

thats the difference between "over drive" (from the amp) and "distortion" (from the speakers).
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 10:36 PM
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

Watt measures power, volts measure voltage
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 10:46 PM
 
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Re: 50W vs 15W tube amp? Please help me choose my new amp! Thanks

watts have nothing to do with how many speakers can be driven by an amp, only how much clean headroom you have.
As for the Palmer, I've heard good things but have no personal experience. I'm sure it's a quality piece of gear as I know it's been used on professional recordings to good effect. My experience has been that an amp playing out of real speakers has always been more dynamic (feel, maybe not always sound) to me as a player than even really good speaker simulators. The sims may nail the sound/tone, but the dynamicshave left something to be desired of to me.
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