Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators - Jemsite
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

This is actually something I started over at the Egnater forum, but I thought some fellow Jemsiters would find this interesting...

Basically, I set up my amp with 4 different mics and 2 different speaker simulators so I can record it to 6 tracks in parallel. So I've played a bunch of riffs using various tones on the amp to see how the different mics/simulators respond. (The amp, FYI, is a Randall RM20B combo--15 watts, EL84's, one 12" Greenback in a closed cab--using several different modules.)

Here are the scenarios I've got set up:

1. Shure SM57 dynamic (on-axis, midway between speaker cone and edge, 1" from grille) on RM20B's Greenback --> ART TPS preamp --> Behringer compressor (bypassed) --> Delta 1010LT input

2. Sennheiser e609 dynamic (on-axis, midway between speaker cone and edge, 1" from grille) on RM20B's Greenback --> ART TPS preamp --> Behringer compressor (bypassed) --> Delta 1010LT input

3. Nady SCM900 large diaphragm condenser (on-axis, midway between speaker cone and edge, 1" from grille) on RM20B's Greenback --> ART TPS preamp (phantom power engaged) --> Behringer compressor (bypassed) --> Delta 1010LT input

4. CAD GXL1200 small diaphragm condenser (on-axis, midway between speaker cone and edge, 1" from grille) on RM20B's Greenback --> ART TPS preamp (phantom power engaged) --> Behringer compressor (bypassed) --> Delta 1010LT input

5. RM20B's XLR direct recording out --> ART Tube Channel preamp (compressor/EQ bypassed) --> Delta 1010LT input

6. RM20B's line out -> ADA Microcab (set for 1x12 sealed cabinet, hi balance & thump controls at midpoint) --> (compressor/EQ bypassed) --> Delta 1010LT input

I'm in the process of uploading the MP3's now, and as soon as that process is complete I'll post links. Maybe I should make this into a game... whoever first can identify which mic/simulator was used for all 6 tracks will get a free piece of broken rack gear

--B

Last edited by bduersch; 09-14-2005 at 10:59 AM.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-14-2005, 09:35 AM
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

It doesnt matter what mic/simulator you used .If you are turning the file to an MP3 you'll lose too many frequencies in the original file to care. MP3's suck .. We wont hear what you heard when you tracked it.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-14-2005, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

Actually, you'd be surprised how different they sound even as MP3's, but that's mostly because I've spent a ton of time researching encoders and their parameters. I'm currently using LAME on the highest quality settings, which generates comparably large MP3 files, but also gives much better audio resolution. Believe me... I spent a lot of time looking into this, since I'd always shunned the audio quality of MP3's in the past, but after doing a lot of research with LAME I converted my collection of 700+ CD's into MP3's.

Anyway, back to the story at hand... Go figure... I make half a dozen MP3's, get ready to upload 'em, and my webhost has suspended my account since my credit card # expired. Would've thought they would have tried to notify me in some way, but apparently not. So anyway, I've got the MP3's ready to upload, and as soon as my account is restored I'll post the links.

--B
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-14-2005, 09:56 PM
Gex
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

I would like to know, which one do you think reproduces the original amp's sound the most accurately?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-15-2005, 09:44 PM
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

Im not gonna argue but there is no way that an MP3 can even come close to the actual sound. They remove too many frequencies of the original signal.
Plus most if not all computer speakers suck. When a "real" recording is made in a studio some people use a $15000 mic into a $20000 pre amp into a $150000 console. thru $10000 monitors. As far as which mic sounds the best its all personal preference. Nueman,AKG,SHure Rode,Royer etc they all make a great high professional grade mic. ANd there is NO WAY an MP3 will reproduce what they hear .
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-15-2005, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibanut
Im not gonna argue but there is no way that an MP3 can even come close to the actual sound. They remove too many frequencies of the original signal. Plus most if not all computer speakers suck. When a "real" recording is made in a studio some people use a $15000 mic into a $20000 pre amp into a $150000 console. thru $10000 monitors. As far as which mic sounds the best its all personal preference. Nueman,AKG,SHure Rode,Royer etc they all make a great high professional grade mic. ANd there is NO WAY an MP3 will reproduce what they hear .
Sure, but the same argument can be made for practically any digital recording, since sampling rate choices and any compression whatsoever will have an impact on the final result (although MP3's would by nature have more of an impact). Realistically, most people aren't going to have transparent enough receivers, speakers, etc. on the listening end to appreciate some of those subtle nuances. Given that most people on the site are doing recording on a budget and distributing music electronically, I just thought this would be a worthwhile exercise, since most people are using $100 mics, $100 preamps, etc. (which is what I'm using at home).

I'm already hesitant to think about the "which mic reproduces the amp's sound most effectively" question, because as Ibanut says it all is a matter of taste. Plus, most people don't listen to their amps the same way the mics do (e.g., people usually don't have their heads 2" from the speaker, where things sound drastically different than from 5-10 feet away). Since the sound of an amp changes as you move around the room, even reconfigure the room, it's hard to say which mic is most accurate. But that's a whole other topic.

--B
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-17-2005, 11:22 PM
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

It's a totally valid experiment because it uses the SAME MP3 encoder for all six signals. Now if it were a 56k MP3 then I'd say forget about it. But so long as it's decent, it can be used for comparison purposes. It doesn't matter what we're all listening on because we're not judging how good or bad his recording sounds, but rather how each signal varies from eachother. It's all in good fun anyway, we're not trying to write an article for EQ magazine or anything.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-19-2005, 12:57 PM
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

I think people don't give MP3 enough credit. Once you get to something like a LAME STANDARD level, it's pretty decent, even with full range music (don't think so? Ever done an ABX?). For just electric guitar, it's "durn" transparent, and the mic or speaker differences will SWAMP encoder issues.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-19-2005, 01:11 PM
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

This is a great Idea man, will be glad to hear it. I will be in the process of getting a good mic soonish, so I will be interested to see which one stands up the best. I was just going to get a Shure SM57, but it will be good to hear the others as well.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-19-2005, 01:32 PM
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibanut
Im not gonna argue but there is no way that an MP3 can even come close to the actual sound. They remove too many frequencies of the original signal.
This is configurable, of course. With the LAME encoder at quality level 0, full stereo, and 256 kbps, no audible frequencies are cut. Anyone who can distinguish this from CD quality has golden ears.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-19-2005, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

Ok, finally got a chance to upload the clips (and a picture) today.



All the clips were recorded using a PRS Standard 24 straight into a Randall RM20B combo. Only FX used was a Little Lanilei spring reverb unit in the FX loop. After recording, all tracks were normalized, saved as WAV files, then converted to MP3 files using lame -h --preset standard.

Also, to show how the mic's & simulators react to different amp tones, I switched amp modules several times during the recording. You'll hear the following modules throughout the clip:
0:00-0:21 Plexi (modded), 0:21-0:43 Top Boost (modded), 0:43-1:12 Brown (modded), 1:12-1:33 Recto (modded), 1:33-1:50 SL+ (modded), 1:50-2:07 XTC (wow... it's actually stock!), 2:07-2:31 Ultra (modded), 2:31-3:00 Modern (modded), 3:00-3:26 Ultra Lead (modded), 3:26-3:43 Blackface (modded)

So finally, here are the links:
http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic1.mp3
http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic2.mp3
http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic3.mp3
http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic4.mp3
http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic5.mp3
http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic6.mp3

And here's the list of mics & simulators I used:
Shure SM57 dynamic mic
Sennheiser e609 dynamic mic
Nady SCM900 large diaphragm condenser mic
CAD GXL1200 small diaphragm condenser mic
RM20B's XLR direct recording out
RM20B's line out -> ADA Microcab

Anyone wanna take a guess at matching them up? Or if not, have any strong preferences as to which one you like the sound of best?

I'll share the actual pairings in a couple days.

--B

Last edited by bduersch; 09-19-2005 at 11:39 PM.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-25-2005, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Demo clips of different mics, cab simulators

Ok, a week later... time to share the results:

Shure SM57 dynamic mic: http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic5.mp3

Sennheiser e609 dynamic mic: http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic3.mp3

CAD GXL1200 small diaphragm condenser mic: http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic1.mp3

Nady SCM900 large diaphragm condenser mic: http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic6.mp3

RM20B's XLR direct recording out: http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic2.mp3

RM20B's line out -> ADA Microcab: http://studio.naughtybutterspoon.com/mic4.mp3

My personal favorite combination has been to use an SM57 on one cab and a e609 on a second cab in parallel, occasionally using a cab simulator to add a little "thump" back in if needed. Although I liked the Microcab at first, it tends to get out of phase with the mics easily, so recently I've been using the Randall's cab sim, which isn't bad compared to 90% of the cab sims I've used.

--B
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amp tone , condenser mic , electric guitar , spring reverb

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