Expensive equipment a waste of money? - Page 2 - Jemsite
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post #16 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 02:31 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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Originally Posted by SimpleMind View Post
If you had the money would you regret that you didn`t buy a fancy boutique amp instead of the Valveking?
If i had the money i would get a better amp and more guitars, rather than a fancy boutique amp. I guess it's all down to how much money you have. Right now, i don't have much
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post #17 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 03:23 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

Here is my take...I can give you both perspectives...

I have 2 residences. One is in Maine and the other is in Vegas. I keep my high end stuff in Maine for more the humid & guitar friendly climate and lower crime rate.

My rig in Maine is a Jem7VWH into a Peterson VSS Stomp Strobe Tuner into a Boss CH1 Chorus into a Boss DD3 Delay into a Randall Lynchbox (Blackface, Plexi, and XTC modules) and matching 412 cab. I use (2) 12' Monster Studio Pro 1000 cables and (2) 8" Studio Pro 1000 patch cables. I have about $2000 in the guitar. $2600 in the amp, modules, and cab. I have about $400 in the pedals and about $280 in the cables. So, I have almost $5300 invested in that rig. It is a nice feeling knowing you have top of the line gear and it does sound great as well. I have a few other guitars there I didn't include, but mostly just use the white Jem. The others are more "collectables" that stay in their cases.

In Vegas, I have a MIJ Ibanez RGR450LTD that I run into a solid state Hughes & Kettner Matrix 100 head (w/ built in effects) w/ matching 412 cab. I have a little Korg CA 30 chromatic pocket tuner. I only use (1) 12' Monster Rock Cable. I also bought deluxe gig bag w/ the guitar. So I have $450 in the guitar, $750 in the amp & cab, $20 in the tuner, $40 in the cable, and $45 in the gig bag. So,I have just over $1300 in that rig.

So, 2 rigs & $4000 differance in price and I won't lie...I use and enjoy my $1300 rig more in my spare time. Here are 2 reasons why...

1) I have to let the tube amp warm up, run all the cables, and plug in the adapters. I don't like the mess of cables laying all over, so when I'm done, I coil them up and put them away. It only takes a couple of minutes but sometimes that 2 mins is enough to make me say "Ah, I'll play a little later", and I usually don't. While in Vegas, I just grab the guitar and the 1 cable, plug in, and hit the on switch and play.

2) I have high expectations of my expensive rig and spend more time tweaking everything than playing. Tube amps can be "fussy" and don't always sound the same everytime you play them. I'm always tweaking the 2 effect pedals as well. As for the cheap rig, there is less there to adjust and it sounds exactly the same everytime. I also don't have nearly as high of expectations as I do the expensive rig. (It sounds better than you think it would too!).

So, what I'm saying is that I don't believe it is as much of an issue of "a waste of money " as the issue of "Can you justify spending the $?". If you are a pro musician and are looking to play big gigs and maybe get signed, spend the extra $....and it's a tax write-off and it's your career. If it's just a hobby and you have accepted that you missed your ride years ago (like me)...maybe spending big isn't the best thing to do.
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post #18 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 03:31 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

[QUOTE=voodoo_child;659275]If you change your mind about the wine and the holiday, you're not going to get your money back are you?

But you can always sell the nice amp and buy another. Most high-end stuff holds its value pretty well.

So you buy a $3k amp, play it for a year, and sell it for $2.5k..... that's a whole year of rockin' for $500. Can't say fairer than that...[/QUOTE



Well put Voodoo. That is my reasoning with my gear.
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post #19 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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Originally Posted by LynchBox View Post
Here is my take...I can give you both perspectives...

I have 2 residences. One is in Maine and the other is in Vegas. I keep my high end stuff in Maine for more the humid & guitar friendly climate and lower crime rate.

My rig in Maine is a Jem7VWH into a Peterson VSS Stomp Strobe Tuner into a Boss CH1 Chorus into a Boss DD3 Delay into a Randall Lynchbox (Blackface, Plexi, and XTC modules) and matching 412 cab. I use (2) 12' Monster Studio Pro 1000 cables and (2) 8" Studio Pro 1000 patch cables. I have about $2000 in the guitar. $2600 in the amp, modules, and cab. I have about $400 in the pedals and about $280 in the cables. So, I have almost $5300 invested in that rig. It is a nice feeling knowing you have top of the line gear and it does sound great as well. I have a few other guitars there I didn't include, but mostly just use the white Jem. The others are more "collectables" that stay in their cases.

In Vegas, I have a MIJ Ibanez RGR450LTD that I run into a solid state Hughes & Kettner Matrix 100 head (w/ built in effects) w/ matching 412 cab. I have a little Korg CA 30 chromatic pocket tuner. I only use (1) 12' Monster Rock Cable. I also bought deluxe gig bag w/ the guitar. So I have $450 in the guitar, $750 in the amp & cab, $20 in the tuner, $40 in the cable, and $45 in the gig bag. So,I have just over $1300 in that rig.

So, 2 rigs & $4000 differance in price and I won't lie...I use and enjoy my $1300 rig more in my spare time. Here are 2 reasons why...

1) I have to let the tube amp warm up, run all the cables, and plug in the adapters. I don't like the mess of cables laying all over, so when I'm done, I coil them up and put them away. It only takes a couple of minutes but sometimes that 2 mins is enough to make me say "Ah, I'll play a little later", and I usually don't. While in Vegas, I just grab the guitar and the 1 cable, plug in, and hit the on switch and play.

2) I have high expectations of my expensive rig and spend more time tweaking everything than playing. Tube amps can be "fussy" and don't always sound the same everytime you play them. I'm always tweaking the 2 effect pedals as well. As for the cheap rig, there is less there to adjust and it sounds exactly the same everytime. I also don't have nearly as high of expectations as I do the expensive rig. (It sounds better than you think it would too!).

So, what I'm saying is that I don't believe it is as much of an issue of "a waste of money " as the issue of "Can you justify spending the $?". If you are a pro musician and are looking to play big gigs and maybe get signed, spend the extra $....and it's a tax write-off and it's your career. If it's just a hobby and you have accepted that you missed your ride years ago (like me)...maybe spending big isn't the best thing to do.
Thanks for that contribution..... you really made yor point.
I have promised a salesman that i would decide myself tomorrow whether i would buy the Mesa Roadster which he reserved for me or not.
Its kind of get the best or get some decent but cheap stuff (together with a POD).
I am still not sure how to choose.
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post #20 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 04:16 PM
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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Originally Posted by Dino View Post
Korean Ibanez = or > anything Gibson or Fender ever made.

Seriously?


Im afraid to ask how you came to that conclusion, although I bet it would start "So Alex and I were laying in bed one night....."
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post #21 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 04:28 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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Originally Posted by SimpleMind View Post
Regarding classical guitars which i have a better clue you can for example buy a Contreras, a Hauser or a Fleta for 30000 Euro. That thing will sound "maybe 1500 Euro" better than a 1500 Euro Bernabe.
I question if its worth it even if you have the money. Which name could be worth paying that amount of money for?
But were goes the line for amps where you don`t get that much of a better sound but pay mostly for the brandname?
I would say regarding classical guitars you can safely get you a very!! good deal for 3000 Euro with a guitar you never will regret that you bought regarding price performance ratio. Beyond that you just get a relatively marginal better guitar no matter if you pay 10000 or 50000. Exceptions may confirm the rule. just my humble opinion.

Not to get off topic, but what do you think of the Yairis?? I would love to get a good classical guitar at some point because I enjoy playing spanish guitar as well, but I know I will never be able to drop 3 large on one. I could reasonably get a Yairi on fleabay, but I would have to buy it sight unseen. How would you compare a Yairi to the Contreras or Hauser??
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post #22 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

To be honest i don`t think i played a Yairi as far as i can remeber. Played a lot of Classical guitars and the ones i remember most are the following: Bernabe M5 and 10.
http://www.benelly.nl/Scripts/prodli...yle=9&brand=10

Loved both. Know some other people who compared it to a lot of the Ramirez stuff and everyone i know including myself sais the same: The Bernabe is the better guitar. I played some Alhambra guitars which are quite ok priced, the one i played which i don`t remember the name of was a very fine guitar to a decent price (about 1600 euro). But you can get yorself even cheaper guitars that will give you good playability and a fine, well balanced tone. Played a lot of them but can`t remeber all the brands. As i said those who really excelled were the Bernabe guitars. I myself bought a handmade guitar from the german Lucier Franziska Koessl. Excellent guitar with regard to tone. Unfortunately french finish, don`t like that at all. The downside with my guitar is that its corpus is a little smaller compared to a normal sized guitar which makes it a little bit more difficult to play for me. But i get a lot of praise for its tone and considered that the guitar is handmade it wasn`t expensive at all, i payed 1500 euro for 3 years ago. Ramirez the probably most renowned classical guitar builder has a lot of guitars with very varying quality. lot of the Ramirez stuff isn`t build from Ramirez luthiers but from Burguet and others (I think Alhmabra too). So basically you pay a lot for the name here, but!! they have extremley fine guitars, had the chance to play on a Centenario for about a year ago. That was really an incredibly sounding guitar!!! But that stuff is definitively out of my price range.
The best tip from me would be go and try out everything you find and buy the guitar you like best. There are some aspects to consider when buying a classical guitar and size is one of it. Tremolo playing is much easier with my 100 Euro guitar than with my handbuild guitar. But!! that handbuild guitar sounds much !!! better than the 100 Euro thing. And last but not least, know a guy who bought himself a Contreras. Didn`t use a humiidifier and stored the guitar near an oven. Guess what happened? That guitar costed him 12000 Euro. Not every expensive classical is a good guitar and vice versa.
If you are into classical i recommend you the Colonna homepage :
http://www.mauriziocolonna.com/
In my humble opinion together with Barrios the most talented guitar player/componist ever!
Hope i could help you a little.
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post #23 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 05:32 PM
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

I think cheap gear is a waste of money. I always laugh when I go to someones house and instead of one nice guitar they have 4 or 5 cheap ones, as if quantity of guitars makes up for quality, and instead of enjoying the nice gear they have some people (maybe, maybe not thread starter) decide to just go to forums and discuss whether expensive gear is worth it, or try to convince others their $200 whatever is just as good as their friends $1500 whatever.
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post #24 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 06:46 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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Originally Posted by elcid View Post
Seriously?


Im afraid to ask how you came to that conclusion, although I bet it would start "So Alex and I were laying in bed one night....."
You know I am exaggerating. Seriously though, go down to guitar center right now pick up a $2500 Les Paul and really look at it. Then go pick up a somewhat low end Ibanez, like a SZ520QM or something. Look at the paint and the binding and various things about the guitar. Even the design. You may feel differently, but I don't see the $2000 worth of difference to justify the price. I feel that you are really paying more for the prestige of Les Paul ownership than anything. Well, they are at least still made in America and you are supporting amercan jobs. That is something you have to live with if you choose to go cheap.

It's best to do some research and intimately know the product you are buying and what makes it special before dropping your hard earned cash. Heck, some guys learn to make their own gear. Build your own custom whatever and then you know it is right for you!
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post #25 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 07:09 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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I think cheap gear is a waste of money. I always laugh when I go to someones house and instead of one nice guitar they have 4 or 5 cheap ones, as if quantity of guitars makes up for quality, and instead of enjoying the nice gear they have some people (maybe, maybe not thread starter) decide to just go to forums and discuss whether expensive gear is worth it, or try to convince others their $200 whatever is just as good as their friends $1500 whatever.
I know a guy who owns at least 7 stagg/other random make guitars and basses. You know the kind, ones that have see through bodys off **** etc. He actually looks down on me when we talk guitars for "only" owning 3 electric guitars currently...

His staggs + Marshall MG 15 Watt + Some no name plastic distortion pedal > my 30 year old mint Strat, Rg 2550 and Marshall TSL Full stack w/pedals aparently.

Not that I argue of course.
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post #26 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 07:28 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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Originally Posted by elcid View Post
I think cheap gear is a waste of money. I always laugh when I go to someones house and instead of one nice guitar they have 4 or 5 cheap ones, as if quantity of guitars makes up for quality, and instead of enjoying the nice gear they have some people (maybe, maybe not thread starter) decide to just go to forums and discuss whether expensive gear is worth it, or try to convince others their $200 whatever is just as good as their friends $1500 whatever.
I don't know if that is directed at me. I'm not saying my cheaper gear is as nice as my expensive gear. I'm well aware it's not. I'm sure a lot of people take pride in the gear they have especially after the $ they spent to get it. I'm just saying that if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't have spent the $ I did and it's not an issue of not being able to afford it. My cheaper gear is all I really need a this point. My reasons are explained above. I see people in here tearing apart JEM555s & JS100s and I own a USA Wolfgang and see the same thing on that forum with the Korean Wolfs. I assume it makes them feel better to do it. People know if they buy the cheaper version it is not as nice. However, they are fans of the artist playing it and often just want to take the pride of playing the signature guitar. Often, it is all they can afford. I've sold Jem555s, JS100s, and Korean Wolfs along with the high end signatures. To be honest, I enjoyed selling the cheaper guitar to the high school kid with a dream that was EXCITED to be playing Steve Vai's guitar versus the older guy spending $2100 to just add another one to his collection that might play at his buddies wedding. When the kids bring them in for set-ups etc., they are still in love with their guitar. About 10 years ago at NAMM, I saw Eddie Van Halen at the playing a Predator through an Envoy 110....and it sounded like Eddie. The point Peavey was trying to make is that their entry level instruments are still very playable. The other point that was made is this, the equipment can only do so much for you..In the end, it's the talent you have in your hands.
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post #27 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 07:37 PM
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

Its not directed at you specifically, but like I said any gear forum you go to there are threads like this. People putting down expensive gear, and people who have it. Saying things like you are just paying for a name, or the people with nice gear are suckers. On the otherhand, if people with nice gear say anything remotely negative about cheap gear, they are looked at like they are *******s.
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post #28 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 07:43 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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Its not directed at you specifically, but like I said any gear forum you go to there are threads like this. People putting down expensive gear, and people who have it. Saying things like you are just paying for a name, or the people with nice gear are suckers. On the otherhand, if people with nice gear say anything remotely negative about cheap gear, they are looked at like they are *******s.
agreed
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post #29 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 07:45 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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Its not directed at you specifically, but like I said any gear forum you go to there are threads like this. People putting down expensive gear, and people who have it. Saying things like you are just paying for a name, or the people with nice gear are suckers. On the otherhand, if people with nice gear say anything remotely negative about cheap gear, they are looked at like they are *******s.

I know if I were rich, I would have nice gear, but I'm not rich so I buy the best that I can afford. My guitars make me happy when I play them and to me that's all that really matters. If a person can afford a Jem and it makes them happy then I think that's great. Nobody has the right to judge him if he can afford it and it's what makes his life a little brighter and by the same token if a poorer person has lesser gear, but it makes him happy then nobody should look down and judge him either. If music is being made and it is enriching the soul of the player, then who cares if it's played on a RG or a Jem or a LP. Just my humble 2 cents.
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post #30 of 118 (permalink) Old 05-15-2007, 07:56 PM
 
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Re: Expensive equipment a waste of money?

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The biggest difference between a Squire and a USA Fender is the sticker on the headstock. Same with Epiphone and Gibson.

Amps can be a real rip off. For $3500 They should be able to open it up and show you where it took them two weeks to hand wire and solder each connection. By technician that gets paid a livable wage.
Aww, no, I can't really agree here Dino - if someone can't actually feel and see the difference in quality between an Epiphone and a Gibson, or a Squier and a Fender, then I definitely agree with the originator of this thread, that it is money wasted - but it doesn't necessarily follow that you NEED to spend more money to buy quality gear. I bought a Fender Custom Shop Strat - it wasn't cheap, but it replaced a 1963 Strat that was gorgeous (I just ran out of money a few years ago), and while I think the current US Fenders are very good, the CS Strat was just that little bit closer in feel and sound to its predecessor, that's what I wanted, but in a pinch, the US Standard Strat would have been fine.

I think it's probably safe to see that almost everyone on Jemsite wants to play as well as they possibly can, and if that means you spend a bit more on a top quality bit of gear for a small improvement, then you do it!

With regards to amps, you sort of, to a degree, get what you pay for - sure, a BadCat or a Cornford is partially going to cost more because it is hand wired point to point on turret boards (which coincidentally if it is designed and done really, really well makes for the quietest possible tube amp in terms of background noise), but in most cases you are also paying for the fact that someone who goes to the trouble of building a high quality amp is not going to shirk on the components, which means ultra high quality capacitors, tubes, transformers, military spec resistors (the old carbon resistors in most old tube amps had a tolerance rating of up to +-20% - add that up a few times through the signal chain of a Marshall Plexi Head, and you start to get an idea of why some old ones sound killer, some sound great, and some sound ordinary!) - in order to make sure that each amp sounds as good as the next. All this stuff costs a lot of money - add things like finger jointed solid wood cabinetry and the like, and sure, they are expensive, but you are getting what you pay for - and if it cost me 3500 Euro to sound just that little bit more like Guthrie Govan, so be it! I can pull a pretty good sound out of a Vox Valvetronix 30 watt tranny amp if I tinker with it long enough, but I can get an absolute killer sound out of my TriAxis just by switching it on - and that alone, for me, made this expensive bit of kit worth every cent!

Having said all that, you can trot down to the local music store and plomp down $1495AUD on a Vox AC30 Custom Classic, which is not a lot of money for an all tube amp here in Australia, and get a wonderful sounding amp - the jury is totally out as to whether it's all - Chinese construction and componentry will still be running six months from now, and when I buy one (for that kind of money I just can't resist getting one!), I fully expect to be replacing tubes and bits that progressively fall off the amp in the next few years, but hey, it's very cheap, it sounds great, and I can't resist it!

Over the same period, I fully expect the rather more expensive Mesa Boogie rig to just keep going, and going, and going, and sound just as good as it did the day I bought it.

Oh, yeah, and back to the original question, I'd take the Cornford over the wine any day - sooner or later all that great wine will be gone, and all you have to show for it is fuzzy memories and a collction of hangovers, but that damn Cornford will still be thumping out great guitar tone fifty years from now!
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