Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier - Jemsite
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-12-2007, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

Hey Guys

I've got a burning question here. As a young hard rock/alt rock/metal/wtf?!! guitarist, I've come to love the MESA Dual/Triple Rectifiers as recorded on a sh1tload of albums by my favourite bands (I'm an avid fan of the two different tones used by Dan Donegan of Disturbed on "Stupify" and "Remember" - absolutely f%#*ing huge on Stupify and a lot of midrange aggression on "Remember"), and I've never had the priveledge of standing next to a real tube guitar amp, nevermind heard one live, and forget about me ever having played on one! I go completely insane when I turn up Disturbed's DVD entitled M.O.L. during the band's live show!!! dan's sound is absolutely mind-blowing (I know he used a BBE Sonic Maximiser in his Triple Rectifier's FX loop - might be the reason he had such a spank-ass sound back then!)

I live in South Africa and to get a tube amp is a [email protected]#$ng mission. Especially MESA/Boogie amps, they're not distributed here. But I've decided that I'm gonna work my arse of to save up and get one - even if it takes me a decade to do it!!!

So lo and behold, I've been enticed by an amp that IS distributed and officially warranteed here : a GENZ BENZ El Diablo 100. I loooooooove 6L6 tone and I cannot stand EL34 tone for some reason (sounds like it doesnt have enough balls and aggression to me, it sounds too bassy and sterile to me [yes I said that - sterile sounds from a tube amp!]. There's just something in a Rectifier's midrange that I've fallen in love with and I can't explain why or how.

Now I have heard an El Diablo (with stock EL34s) kicked down to 50w recorded too, and it sounds a hell of a lot different than in 100w mode, so maybe its an unfair comparison, but have any of you people ever heard an El Diablo played with 6L6s in on 100w mode?

Can anyone be so kind as to try and make audio recordings between the two amps, or is their anyone with personal experience that can give me a comparison?

Some of the reviews I've seen state that the Dual Rec in Modern mode has a lot of low end buzz/fizz (?) and that the El Diablo has a bit more clarity (although if it is like this on stock EL34's or if the reviewer hotrodded his Benz I dunno).

I've tried listening to all my fav bands (btw, most of them play rectifiers, I only recently tried to research their gear and I found out this interesting titbit - maybe I started likeing their music so much because of their MESA amp tones without knowing it, I really am clueless as to why this is so!!!), from Nickelback to Seether to Adema, KoRn, Limp Bizkit, Disturbed circa "The Sickness", Linkin Park, 16Stitch circa "Collapse of Air" etc. and I've been able to identify some of the so-called "buzz/fizz" on some tracks, though on others its completely absent. Is this buzz part-and-parcel of the Rectifier series of amps? Or is it just plain nonsense?

Regards,
Kevsta.

Any help/comments/etc would be greatly appreciated!
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-12-2007, 07:03 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Memphis, TN area
Posts: 90
Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

I LOVE my Diablo.

One of the first things I did with it when I got money, however, is replace the EL34's with 6L6's. This made a HUGE difference in tone for the gain channel. The cleans suffered tons (the cleans with EL34's is AMAZING), but the gain makes up for it.

I'm going to go pick up my setup from our practice room tonight, possibly, to throw a few tracks down. I also use a BBE 482i.

My settings for this amp, for the gain channel, is as follows (you know how the controls are, 12 noon is 0db cut/gain, then -/+15 each way):
Gain: 2oclock
High gain selected
Volume: 4 (gain and volume are the only ones that aren't setup in the +/- 15 configuration)
Bass: +12
Mids: +1
Highs: +2
Master Volume: 4 (like the channel volume)

These aren't exact to what I'm using, and I'll get that for you later. For me, this is a VERY gutsy, in your face tone that's real tight. I don't use a ton of gain.. I like my sound to be more punchy and tight than saturated.

I'll try to post clips later on, possibly tomorrow.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-13-2007, 03:33 PM
 
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Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

Hey Logan.. I play in a hardrock/alt metal band and uses an el diablo 100c.. this 212 combo has more bottom end and is louder then most half stacks i have played.. it sounds very similar to a dual or triple rect. i have compared.. i love both for heavy rhythm.. neither are my favorite for lead but thats just my say.. a lot of guys i have heard who use the diablos scoop them and make them sound awful.. if you get one i would be willing to give you my settings.. i have had my amp for a little over a year and use it at live volume 2 times a week, every week.. this thing is a tank, has never quit on me, or done anything wierd.. it is 100% reliable.. i put in some 6l6's in december and i like them better then the el84s.. they have a less grainy high range and the mids feel better.. this amp sounds at its best once u get it crankin a bit.. with the master volume at 1 or 1.5 it is ridiculously loud and any more and the soundman would tell u to f. off.. i would recommend this amp to anyone who is playing in a hard rock - death metal band.. it doesnt have the attack that i need for blues & fusion ( but thats why i got a fender...) the features are great as well ( lead boost )

the guys at genz respond to you within a day if you question about warranty.. i do have one issue with my amp that hasnt been proven.. it seems like it fries the battery circuits of my stop boxes when ran through the fx loop.. it could be the adapters i am using but i am quite certain it is the loop.. jeff genzler talked with his tech and they are stumped, but since i always use a power source with my pedals, it makes no difference to me..

as for GB vs MESA.... they are both war machines built for the same cause.. they may not be very versatile but if you are playing the heavies they are A1..
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-14-2007, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Posts: 3
OK, so how about this?

I'm happy you guys responded! Probably the only way I'm ever gonna be able to decide for myself is by trying out both amps (which'll never happen in a million year I guess... it sucks being in a third-world country).

Anyways, another question now, how does a Diablo 100 (with the 6L6's) sound through its Direct Out jack (good, bad, 2x12ish, 4x12ish or full-stack-ish, accurate or way off, on-axis-ish or off-axis-ish, mid or bass-intensive, anything else?)?

Would you mind making a recording through the D.O. jack with your Diablo at home/practice session on your PC/laptop and mailing it to me? (PM me and I'll give you my mail address).

I guess always mic'ing up a real cab would be better but if the signal from Diablo's D.O. jack is a good quality reproduction of a real mic'ed up Diablo, I can record at home and gig with it and not be bothered about having to lug my sh1tty mike along.

Second of all, how much gain/distortion can a Diablo push out? I dunno how to describe the Rectifier's gain characteristics on Modern mode but as recorded it sounds damn aggressive and insane. When used with 6L6's, does the Diablo come close to being "Recto-ish" gain-wise (i'm talking about pure gain, not about tone, we all know no two different amps will ever sound the same tone-wise,).

Remember I tune my guitar to Drop Db (Db Ab Db Gb Bb Eb) (same as Seether, Disturbed, Linkin Park, etc.)

Thanks!

PS. : Does Diablo use any 5U4 (or similar) rectifier tubes at all? From what I can tell from sources on the internet that sell the Diablo it doesnt seem to use any tube rectifiers - does it rather have a silicon-diode rectifier bridge or a phase-inverting transformer? This would be a great bonus - less chance of the amp crapping out on you while using the amp! :-)

Last edited by [LoGaN]; 04-14-2007 at 11:20 AM.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-14-2007, 01:06 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 2,638
Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

i played a diablo with 34s in it . it wasn't my thing , the gain was really dry sounding or too fuzzy if you tried to get a more liquid/fluid type of drive . i think the 6l6s would smooth the tone out a lot and i'd probably have liked it better.

as far as gain , it had a lot . it was up there in terms with a mesa recto . the gain's voicing is more marshall like , but i think they did a good job between a marshall gain and mesa style gain .

yeah the el diablo as far as i know uses a soild state rectifier .
j.arledge is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-14-2007, 06:26 PM
 
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Posts: 90
Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

Ok, I'm working with two simple recordings right now.

The first one is a small clip of Metallica's Creeping death, using nothing but a Sennheiser e609 and a direct out. I used some slight eqing and compression. The sound is very raw. Both are center panned to give you an idea of what a mic+direct out sound like together.

The second one is some riffs from Pantera's ****ing Hostile and Cannibal Corpse's From Skin to Liquid. The playing isn't too phenominal.. I had to do it quickly due to the loudness of the amp and living in a subdivision, haha. With this clip, I have the mic panned left, and the direct out panned right using the same eq and compression as before, but this time, I used the Toneport's modelling and threw the direct out through a Marshall cab loaded with V30's with a 421 mic up as close as possible.

Clip 1: http://www.msburning.com/jesus/creepingdeath.mp3
Clip 2: http://www.msburning.com/jesus/pantera-cc.mp3
thadood is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 01:43 PM
 
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Location: Canada
Posts: 1,525
Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

-ive never used the direct out
-no tube rectifier
-as much or more gain then a mesa, xxx, etc.. WAY more then you would ever use..
shogun is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-15-2007, 10:14 PM
 
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Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

ahhh, no love for mesa!!
guitardevil2005 is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2007, 06:14 AM
 
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Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

Mesa's rule!Plain and simple.The Dual Rectifier is the only amp you'll ever need.Tons of gain and the're built better than most amps.Just check out how many bands use them.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2007, 06:37 AM
 
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Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

I think you almost answered your own question in your first post - everyone who's tone you dig plays through a Mesa Rectifier! Mesas really do sound lke what you hear on recordings - they don't really customise amps for dudes for the simple reason that they don't have to - they really sound exactly that good straight out of the box!

Mesas, and apparently particularly the Rectifiers, are quite cabinet sensitive, so if you opt for the Mesa route, you'd best save a bit longer and get the correct recto - quad box too!

My tone quest came to an abrupt screeching halt when I finally grew up and just went out and bought the Tri-Axis / Stereo 2:90 amp - that was it - everything I have ever needed, or wanted in an amp is right there - and as Shannon said, they are built like a tank.

Cheers

David
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2007, 08:22 AM
 
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Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by David McCarroll View Post
I think you almost answered your own question in your first post - everyone who's tone you dig plays through a Mesa Rectifier! Mesas really do sound lke what you hear on recordings - they don't really customise amps for dudes for the simple reason that they don't have to - they really sound exactly that good straight out of the box!

Mesas, and apparently particularly the Rectifiers, are quite cabinet sensitive, so if you opt for the Mesa route, you'd best save a bit longer and get the correct recto - quad box too!

My tone quest came to an abrupt screeching halt when I finally grew up and just went out and bought the Tri-Axis / Stereo 2:90 amp - that was it - everything I have ever needed, or wanted in an amp is right there - and as Shannon said, they are built like a tank.

Cheers

David

id like to try the triaxis.. ive played a bunch of rectos and am not happy for my style.. they sound very very similar to my el diablo.. which is great for rhythm.. but very half assed for lead.. u dont get the attack i am looking for when u go to the neck pickup.. the mids sound spongy.. id say they r definately overrated and more of a newb 'taboo'
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-20-2010, 03:00 PM
 
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Smile Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by shogun View Post
Hey Logan.. I play in a hardrock/alt metal band and uses an el diablo 100c.. this 212 combo has more bottom end and is louder then most half stacks i have played.. it sounds very similar to a dual or triple rect. i have compared.. i love both for heavy rhythm.. neither are my favorite for lead but thats just my say.. a lot of guys i have heard who use the diablos scoop them and make them sound awful.. if you get one i would be willing to give you my settings.. i have had my amp for a little over a year and use it at live volume 2 times a week, every week.. this thing is a tank, has never quit on me, or done anything wierd.. it is 100% reliable.. i put in some 6l6's in december and i like them better then the el84s.. they have a less grainy high range and the mids feel better.. this amp sounds at its best once u get it crankin a bit.. with the master volume at 1 or 1.5 it is ridiculously loud and any more and the soundman would tell u to f. off.. i would recommend this amp to anyone who is playing in a hard rock - death metal band.. it doesnt have the attack that i need for blues & fusion ( but thats why i got a fender...) the features are great as well ( lead boost )

the guys at genz respond to you within a day if you question about warranty.. i do have one issue with my amp that hasnt been proven.. it seems like it fries the battery circuits of my stop boxes when ran through the fx loop.. it could be the adapters i am using but i am quite certain it is the loop.. jeff genzler talked with his tech and they are stumped, but since i always use a power source with my pedals, it makes no difference to me..

as for GB vs MESA.... they are both war machines built for the same cause.. they may not be very versatile but if you are playing the heavies they are A1..

im the owner of a new "el diablo 100w", can you help me and tell me some settings,i will be so grateful,many thanks in advance. i play some metal,(trash metal,death metal.........)
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-20-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: spain
Posts: 6
Re: Genz Benz El Diablo Vs. MESA/Boogie Dual Rectifier

im the owner of a new "el diablo 100w", can you help me and tell me some settings,i will be so grateful,many thanks in advance. i play some metal,(trash metal,death metal.........)
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amp tone , bbe sonic , bbe sonic maximiser , david mccarroll , death metal , dual rectifier , genz benz , limp bizkit , mesa dual , mesa rectifier , mesa recto , neck pickup , sonic maximiser , triple rectifier , tube amp

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