juicy vai and holdsworth sounds w/ marshall dsl50? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-20-2003, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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juicy vai and holdsworth sounds w/ marshall dsl50?

i need a decent amp soon, but i have no big money to spend. so i think the dsl50 is the best option. i need a saturated/creamy yet powerful & fat lead sound. i heard somewehre that the powersection of jcm2000 doesn't saturate as well as earlier marshalls. true? maybe "softer" tubes is the solution?

thank you in advance for some suggestions
johansson

p.s. forgot to mention: amp has to be an allround-monster, from jazz to prog-metal... :-)
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-20-2003, 04:46 PM
 
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Sounds like you want a mesa... Mark-IV definately springs to mind...

-Drew

Edit- it isn't going to nail Vai's tone, exactly, and i'm not familiar enough with holdsworth's, but everything else in your description points to a mark-iv. Although, it's worth noting that both guys are now carvin endorsees...
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-21-2003, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanx drew, but i don't think i like the boogie-sound for soloing. maybe that's just me, but it seems a bit liveless in high positions, it doesn't scream like a marshall, it's more of a singing tone. please correct me if my perception is wrong.

johansson
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-21-2003, 03:55 PM
 
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No, you're dead-on... However, if you want something that's going to go from jazz to prog-metal, i can't think of anything else aside from maybe a line6 what'll give you "authentic" tones across the board... And i don't know how you feel about amp modeling, but i myself am definately a tube snob...

Anyway, I'd recommend trying to get a chance to plug into one of these things, armed with a few "recommended settings" from other people- there are SO many options that alledgedly you can spend years dialing in tones before you really hit on the RIGHT one (i can remember one guys saying he's had one for 10 years, and it took him 7 to get his "perfect" tone out of it, lol). Worth a try, at least...

-Drew
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-22-2003, 01:48 PM
 
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The DSL50 would be fine IMO. One of my amps is a DSL100 and I'm very happy with it and I play various styles. Try the TSL 60, too. The master volume is a good thing to have. Also worth checking out is the new Marshall MF350 Head which is a hybrid (tube pre/SS power). I've already heard a demo with this puppy cranked. It's amazing! It's much better than I expected it to be. It stays warm and covers the range from dead-clean to super heavy. I'm not sure when they will be in stores, yet since it was new this NAMM period.

Mike 777 Haug
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-22-2003, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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i'm a tube snob too :0)
but seriously, i just want to experience some tube life before tube amps are completely gone someday...

>>>maybe a line6 what'll give you "authentic" tones across the board...
no, i don't need authentic tones, i need tones that suit many styles: warm cleans for jazz, screaming/crunchy yet creamy/compressed leads for instrumentals (rock/fusion), heavy sounds for dream theater like riffs. i don't wanna copy my idols :-)

thanks for all your suggestions guys.

johansson
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-22-2003, 04:26 PM
 
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Yeah,t hat's what i meant- i HIGHLY doubt you'll be able to nail a Vai tone 100% with a line6... but you'll be able to go from a deep, ultra-heavy mesa-like chunk to a crunchy marshall-like rhythm tone to a screaming marshall-like lead to a rich jazzy clean tone to a warm bluesy overdrive and back again- a modeling amp will give you the sort of flexibility that you're not going to get out 99.9% of the "real" amps out there. The price? i have yet to play ANY "modeling" gear that "feels" like a good tube amp, and like i said, it won't sound exactly like a marshall half-stack. Maybe 95% is good enough for what you need, or maybe you'd actually prefer the modeled version- some people actually do. That's what i meant by "authentic," though- not that you'll be able to jump between dead-on versions of Vai's and Holdsworth's tones, but you'll be able to jump from a "fusion" tone to a "metal" tone to a "shred lead" tone to a "jazz" tone to a "country" tone with disturbing ease. Not that you'll sound exactly like your heros, but that you'll sound a hell of a lot like the tones of their styles.

Hope that helped.

-Drew
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-22-2003, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-23-2003, 05:40 AM
 
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um, maybe that means yes...
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-23-2003, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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i think so
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-23-2003, 03:38 PM
 
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For Vai type tones, gotta go with a Marshall or Carvin Legacy....and jack the crap out of them and use a hotplate or something to back the sound levels. For Jazz you need clean headroom and warmth. I have a TSL 100 and the clean channel is really really very nice...I was totally surprised by that.

There's a lot of other discussion surrounding the buzziness of the gain in new marshalls, but it is not hard to get rid of. Start by getting rid of the output transformer and replace it with something closer to the old plexi spec'd ones.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-27-2003, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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sorry, but i don't quite understand how the output transformer affects the tone of an amp. can you explain it in a few words please?

johansson
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-27-2003, 07:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johansson
sorry, but i don't quite understand how the output transformer affects the tone of an amp. can you explain it in a few words please?

johansson
There are different kinds of output trannies. There are hi-fi ones and lo-fi ones. The main difference is the frequency response. Hi-fi ones are very linear, that's why they don't work very well in guitar amps. They pass too much "icepick" treble frequencies. Another kind of transformers are those that shape the sound and this is what you usually want in a guitar amp. They shouldn't pass too much treble, and they should cut off the excessive bass.

Having said that, I'm not sure if replacing the output tranny will solve all your problems. You might want to show your amp to a good amp tech. It's possible to change the amp sound by tweaking the negative feedback loop (to which Presence control is connected). The results can be pretty dramatic.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-28-2003, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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oops, sorry, i'm a tube newbee . it seems that power transformer and output transformer are not the same thing. i guess i'll have to do my homework...

thanx for the help
johansson
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-30-2003, 07:28 PM
 
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DSL100

Well after owning various amps over the last few years -
Marshall 1987XW 50watt Plexi Reissue
Marshall JCM800 100watt
Marshall JCM900SL-X 100 watt
Peavey 5150 Combo
Peavey 5150 Head
Mesa Boogie DC-5
Rivera Rake Reverb (still own)

I recently picked up a Marshall DSL100 from some guy for stupid low price (I had intended to sell it for double what I paid) I was so shocked by how good it sounded across all gain structures that its now my main amp.

It will do the Vai sound to a point (more DLR to P&W) and will do Holdsworth's UK era stuff pretty darn well, its a superb tonally great amp and I have no complaints about any transformer issues, and get this, unlike any other Marshall I have owned its sound superb at lower bedroom levels. Great clean, great crunch and great lead sound, it also works very well with pedals and rack gear. To me its the most inspiring amp I have ever owned.
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