Marshall JCM2000..need a little more. (Please help) - Jemsite
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-03-2003, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Marshall JCM2000..need a little more. (Please help)

I am in this "emocore" (heavier emo, but not nasely like punk I guess)type of band the likes of taking back sunday and finch. Now I run into a problem.

I have a JCM2000 DSL100 and I use my strat when we play. Now at practice I have a problem. The other guitarist uses some crate amp with a Boss distortion pedal board (Some all in one thing). His distortion is just like...WAY too much I guess is the best way to describe it. My amp doesn't seem to cut thru it and mantain a "heavy type sound".

Not too sure what to do about this. I mean I know he will not turn his distortion down ( He is one of those kids who isn't really great at guitar or has much tech knowledge..or much of an ear for a GOOD distortion type = enter BOSS pedals.)

What should I do? My settings now are
Gain : 10, Presence:7, Treble:6, Mids: 2,Bass: 7
Tone Shift and deep switches both pushed in.

Any sugguestions?
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-03-2003, 07:54 PM
 
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Boost your mids. It will help you cut through much more.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-03-2003, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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Erm I tried that...But it looses its punch. Kinda hard to explain.

Someone has to understand
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-04-2003, 12:33 AM
 
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I just picked up a TSL two days ago, and while I haven't had it long, I've already taken it out jamming a bit, and I've had no trouble getting it to cut. So, try the following:

-TURN OFF THAT DAMNED TONE SHIFT!!! [/yelling] Seriously... I know it's "cool" to scoop all your mids out when you're playing "heavy" music, but the reason people started doing that was to "darken" the sound of the distortion anyway, and the lead channel on my TSL is plenty dark as it is. As far as I'm concerned, that button has one function- to facilitate "layering" tones by filling different areas of the frequency spectrum- i.e, leaving space for the leads. Try this... I used to scoop my mids too... I learned. If you need more punch, try some of the other suggestions below.

-cut your gain. It's counter-intuitive, but a cleaner tone will usually sound heavier. My rule of thumb is to back off the gain until it's still nice and crunchy when I'm strumming, but when I'm palm-muting it tightens up and is really clear and chunky, but not fizzy and "crunchy." Scott (Vwall) tweaked the bias a bit on mine and it seems to have a bit extra gain over a stock TSL, so take this with a grain of salt, but my "lead" gain level is currently at a touch over 7, and I'm actually thinking of backing it off a little further. You'll be suprised what this can do- it's counter-intuitive, but give it a try.

-Try more presence. If you'd read the manual you'd have seen that it boosts the upper mid/lower treble frequencies that our ears percieve as helping the sound "cut" through the mix. With that gain at 10 this could be painful- at 7 or so, it ought to be nice.

-Once again, boost the mids... and then listen to your tone in the context of the band. You might not like it when you're just riffing away, but if you cut out all the mids, you're just going to get lost in the mix. With them, I think you might like what you hear around the bass, drums, and rhythm guitar.

Another thing that might help is if you could post your other guitarist's settings... With two guitarists in a band, each individual tone is less important than the way the two tones interact. You two should sit down some time at a moderate volume and just play with your tone controls until you get a sound that compliments the other's nicely.

Let me know if any of this helps.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-04-2003, 12:46 AM
 
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PS- here's my current lead/crunch settings, for a basswood RG-7620 with an Air Norton neck and Tone Zone bridge pickup:

Lead Channel:
Bass: 7 Mids: 8 Treble: 5.5 Gain: 7 (tone shift off)

Crunch Channel:
Bass: 9 Mids: 4.5 Treble: 7 Gain: 6 (tone shift off)

shared "master" section for the distortion channels:
Presence: 8 FX: 0 (nothing hooked up yet) Reverb: 4.5 deep switch currently out, but i haven't decided where it'll be spending most of its time yet.

Subject to change radically after I jam with my "rock" band, but in the meantime, try 'em out.

-Drew
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-05-2003, 02:19 AM
 
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Two things I noticed that helped me to cut through the band without cranking up to a head-crushing volume:

1) Less gain, and a tad more mids. Boogies have that 750hz slide on their eqs which is very effective. Or just use your mid knob. Also contemplate on the subject of pickup choice.

2) Learn to play. Yup. Get a tone out of your hands. Helps. Contemplate (& experiment) on the subjects of touch:softness, digging in; attack and pick angle; dynamics, turn it up a little more than needed and use your hands to get everything from ppp to fff; pick shape, material and thickness.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-05-2003, 02:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Orange
2) Learn to play. Yup. Get a tone out of your hands. Helps. Contemplate (& experiment) on the subjects of touch:softness, digging in; attack and pick angle; dynamics, turn it up a little more than needed and use your hands to get everything from ppp to fff; pick shape, material and thickness.
Haha, that sounds like such an insult at first glance... but really, it's not. I thought all this "tone is in your hands" stuff was crap for the longest time, until i plugged into a TSL head for the first time. It's INCREDIBLY responsive to changes in touch, and it really showed me how badly my "touch" on the instrument sucked. I spent a couple weeks practicing unplugged, working on really nailing my finger articulations playing legato, and tried it again- night and day. Spens some intimate time with justyou and your guitar, no amp, and really listen to different ways of generating sounds.

-Drew
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-06-2003, 03:40 PM
 
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I second the statement: Back off the gain and boost the mids....and don't be scared to crank the bejesus out of that head, get used to using your volume knob on your strat.

Another option, buy an eq pedal or something like a fulltone fatboost or some type of relatively clean boost pedal.

If you still can't get it to cut through (especially with a strat) then there is a bigger problem at hand.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-06-2003, 04:03 PM
 
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Re: Marshall JCM2000..need a little more. (Please help)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff X
I am in this "emocore" (heavier emo, but not nasely like punk I guess)type of band the likes of taking back sunday and finch.
Like, screamo?

Quote:
The other guitarist uses some crate amp with a Boss distortion pedal board (Some all in one thing). His distortion is just like...WAY too much I guess is the best way to describe it. My amp doesn't seem to cut thru it and mantain a "heavy type sound".
Ironically, the other guitarist in my band has the same setup, with an Epiphone Les Paul. He uses a Crate 2x12 combo of some sort on clean, with the Boss OD-10 doing the distortion. I find his tone is really tight and trebly, has a lot of bite to it. So I use a really heavy, Rectifier type tone, with my 7-string, and it balances out

Keep one thing in mind: You do not want to "cut through", despite that being the natural thought at first. You want to blend into the mix and make the whole band sound good as a whole, not just have everyone hear you.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-06-2003, 04:34 PM
 
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Re: Marshall JCM2000..need a little more. (Please help)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Two hands31
Keep one thing in mind: You do not want to "cut through", despite that being the natural thought at first. You want to blend into the mix and make the whole band sound good as a whole, not just have everyone hear you.
Bingo. Twohands, i wish i found this place when i was the age you were when you did- i'd be a MUCH more intelligent guitarist for it. It took me a LONG time to learn that lesson.

Scoff X- ever heard of a group called Count the Stars? They're on Victory too, and have been touring a bit with Taking back Sunday... Their drummer was a childhood friend of mine, although i haven't seen much of him in the last 4-5 years... i might be biased, but the only TBS stuff i've heard is on this promo sampler disc with some Somehow Hollow, TBS, and CTS on it, and personally i feel the Count the Stars stuff is the best stuff on the disc. It's not really my thing- too light and poppy- but they do it very well.... Check 'em out.

-Drew
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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I have heard count the stars, they are good. TBS is my fav so far.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-08-2003, 10:51 PM
 
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Cool... More importantly, played with your settings yet? I'm curious to hear how this one resolves for you.

Also, what are you using for pickups?

-Drew
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-02-2003, 07:28 PM
 
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G'day Scott X,

I also have a Marshall JCM2000 DSL 100 watt head and have pretty much experienced exactly what you have.

The other guitarist's tone sounds crunchy yeah? and when he and you are both playing together your tone sounds vacant, no power...

What I did to fix the problem was get a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal. I've tweaked these settings a bit to crunch up the tone a bit.

My settings for the "ultra gain" channel are:
Lead 2, Gain 5
Tone shift and Deep buttons NOT pressed
Presence 7
Treble 8
Mid 6.5
Bass 2

The EQ is set to boost the highs and mids.

I also pulled two of the EL34 tubes out (outer two) to make the amp effectively a 50watt head. This way I can crank the volume and not have everyone go deaf.

wil..
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-02-2003, 08:13 PM
 
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Try RFT (ECC83) tubes, bro.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-02-2003, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Did you have to change the ohms on the back when you took out the tubes?
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