Mesa or Bogner? - Jemsite
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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Mesa or Bogner?

Well guys, I'm torn between two amplifiers right now. I want either the Mesa Mark IV, or the Bogner Uberschall. Which one? I'm leaning way toward the Mark IV for several reasons. One, I know it sounds good, because Metallica used them, and becuase The Offspring used them on Smash (that's really what made me take a look at them; whether or not you like The Offspring, their tone on Smash is great). Two, it's tons more versatile than the Uberschall (no jazz tunes on that thing). Three, I think the Uberschall is ugly. Four, I haven't been able to actually try the Uberschall out, and five, perhaps the most compelling of all, the shiny new Mark IV waiting patiently for me at my local Guitar Center doesn't cost $3,000. Since the Uberschall is basically a revved-up copy of a Boogie, my thoughts at this point go something like this: Why pay 2x as much for a copy? If I buy the Mark IV, I can get the tone I've always wanted (Offspring's Smash tone on steroids), a more versatile amp, a more physically attractive amp, the pleasure of saying I use a "Mark IV" (that's such a rad name for an amp), all for something like $1500 less. Reading back over this, I may have answered my own question, but to any Uberschall owners/users, does it just have something that the Boogie doesn't, that's worth the extra money/trouble? Thanks.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 12:43 PM
 
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Your right, I think you did answer your own question. There is no reason why you should not buy an amp that gives you the sound you want. Is the Uberschall worth paying more? I think it depends on the person and their ears. To me, if I had the money, I would buy the Uberschall over almost anything because I got to play one and it sounds so amazing. See, my opinion is, once you get into this price range, no amp is really going to be all that better than the other. They are just going to be different. So I suggest you buy with your ears and go with the Mark IV.
Given to Fly is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 05:00 PM
 
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hmm.....I think the Uberschall looks cool

I would definitely pick one up if I had the cash for it. I tried one out a few months ago and I completely dug the tone. I never tried the Mark IV but it seems like a more versatile amp and it is a lot cheaper. You really can't go wrong with either...if money is no object.
Carlo is offline  
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-12-2003, 06:53 PM
 
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>> Since the Uberschall is basically a revved-up copy of a Boogie

I doubt this is true. Randall Smith would fry Bogner's ass and rape his business if this was even remotely true.

Besides, pretty much all amps share the same design (except for Boogie Mark which is unique in the sense that tone stack comes in early). You'd be surprised, but it's pretty easy to convert a Mesa Recto into Soldano SLO. The difference is a few caps and resistrors.

It's the knowledge about where to put them that costs that much. You know that anecdote about turbine engineer, right? "Five dollars for fixing the turbine, four thousand nine hundred and ninety five for knowing how to fix it".

If you have the dough and your playing justifies the purchase, I'd go for a Bogner.
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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Well, I when I said it was a copy, I meant that they were after that share of the market and they cooked up their own Recto. It imitates the Boogie sound, basically, is what I'm saying. Anyway, about the Uberschall, is there something about it that I just CAN'T get from a Mark IV? I can't imagine, given the versatility and massive gain available from the Mesa, that it would be unable to match the Bogner. I mean, I've heard the sound samples on their site, and I listen to the Mark IV in action, and I hear what could be the same amp. When I listen to the Uberschall, I don't hear tone $1000+ better. I guess I should have titled this post differently, because I'm almost 100% in favor of the Mesa, but I just wanted to hear a few opinions on both amps before I made the commitment. Also, while you're here, I ordered an RG 1527 the other day, and I'm planning on replacing the pickups. I think I want an Evolution 7 in the bridge, and I've narrowed the neck pup possibilities down to two similar contestants: the DiMarzio PAF 7, and the Seymour Duncan Jazz 7. Which would you prefer for pristine clean sounds? Why? If it helps, the tone I'm going for is something close to Charlie Hunter's tone on the song Two for Bleu on his s/t album.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 05:28 AM
 
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What you hear really doesn't matter much. You should PLAY an amp to see if it's worth the money.

Answering your question regarding Mark IV - it's based on completely different circuitry (it's not even close to a Recto) and it will give you completely different response and feel. The tones that Mark IV (or Mark IIC+ to which it's very close in terms of circuitry) offers should be in every musician's sonic palette. What I like in it is the way the high-gain notes "burn" and get more overtones on them as you hold them. What I dislike is that it's harder (for me) to play legato with Mark-ish tone. I have to put in more effort that I would have to if I used a more Marshall-esque amp (Egnater, Bogner, Soldano). Mark also gives you incredibly thick and meaty riffs, yet there's something "classic" in Marshall-inspired rhythm tones and they seem to cut through better.

In other words there's no "silver bullet". Don't ever dismiss the amp that you've never played. This leads to buying one amp, getting tired of it and buying another as opposed to compared the two and buying just one. It's pretty clear that the latter way of doing things is much cheaper, especially if you buy new.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 01:22 PM
 
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Funny, for me the more "compressed" sound of a Mark-style Mesa actually helps my legato technique. Then again, I'm just sloppy.

Don't dismiss the Ubershall until you've actually (suprise, suprise) played one. Then, if you don't like what it does, then and only then dismiss it.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I would really like to play the Uber, but no one in my area has one, so I really don't know what to do.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 03:00 PM
 
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Road trip it. Good tone is NEVER too far to drive for (I did 8 hours round trip down to Matt's Music Center in a blizzard once to get my Mesa cab, so i could have it in time for a gig. ).

-D
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 03:02 PM
 
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psst, buy Line6 and get decent replicas of both

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 03:54 PM
 
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The thing is, Line 6 doesn't do Mark IV. And I have yet to A/B its Bogner with a real Bogner.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two hands31
psst, buy Line6 and get decent replicas of both

we all still seen that The bad thing is though, a lot of people are doing that these days! My friend keeps saying that Line 6 modeling is going to take over the industry and no one will care about tube amps in 10 years or so. I say stick thats bologna and stick with the real thing. Mesa Mark IV is a great amp for sure. Guy I know just traded in his Triaxis, a 2:90 and a Mesa cabinet to get a brand new one with some $$.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 09:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitarlos2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two hands31
psst, buy Line6 and get decent replicas of both

we all still seen that The bad thing is though, a lot of people are doing that these days! My friend keeps saying that Line 6 modeling is going to take over the industry and no one will care about tube amps in 10 years or so. I say stick thats bologna and stick with the real thing. Mesa Mark IV is a great amp for sure. Guy I know just traded in his Triaxis, a 2:90 and a Mesa cabinet to get a brand new one with some $$.
well if in 10 years everone's using modelling systems
people will look at us (real tube users) as having the best tone in the world
schweet!!!
Ki swordsman is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 09:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitarlos2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two hands31
psst, buy Line6 and get decent replicas of both

we all still seen that The bad thing is though, a lot of people are doing that these days! My friend keeps saying that Line 6 modeling is going to take over the industry and no one will care about tube amps in 10 years or so. I say stick thats bologna and stick with the real thing. Mesa Mark IV is a great amp for sure. Guy I know just traded in his Triaxis, a 2:90 and a Mesa cabinet to get a brand new one with some $$.
Didn't amplifier makers promise the same thing with solid state amps 10 years ago? Tube gear only becomes more and more expensive. 10 years from now all those Mesas, Bogners, Egnaters and CAEs will be semi-vintage, with a corresponding price tag. Besides, no modelling can possibly be better than the real thing. It can be cheaper, though.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-13-2003, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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I never was too impressed with Line 6. They're a great value, and very versatile, it just seemed to me that they could do a lot of things pretty well, but couldn't really do anything great. I'd rather have a one-tone amp that does what it is meant to perfectly rather than an amp that does several things half-heartedly. Plus, they don't feel the same, which is important.
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backing track , bogner uberschall , charlie hunter , clean tone , dimarzio paf , distorted tone , distorted tones , engl savage , legato technique , local guitar center , mark iic , mesa cab , mesa mark , mesa recto , neck pup , parker fly , seymour duncan , seymour duncan jazz , soldano slo , solid state amp , solid state amps , tube amp , tube amps , versatile amp

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