Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously - Jemsite
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Hello my friends...

Im having this little problem...

I just bought an ADA MP-1 Preamp and i really like the distortion, but
the clean is terrible for me...

I like the clean when using the guitar straight into the amp's IN jack
and by that im using the amp's preamp (Fender 212R Amp).

The MP-1 sounds good only when it is connected like it should (as a preamp)
to the POWER IN jack of my amp.

I thought about doing something like this to solve the problem:
brightstone.co.il/english/connections.jpg

The question mark box is an A/B switch box to switch between the
two output jacks.

BUT, i found out that when i connect a cable to the IN jack of the
amp together with another cable into the POWER IN jack, im getting
no signal from the IN jack, only from whatever is connected to the
POWER IN jack of the amp.

Any suggestions?

Roi.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 06:21 PM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Make sure to use both the effects loop SEND and RETURN.



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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 06:31 PM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Ada is a preamp and should never be in the effects loop.If you plug it there your amp's controls will colorize mp1's tone.
When you plug something to your amp power in, probably it turns off your amp's input cause you cannot have two imputs at the same time, even using an A/B box.
To hear your amp's input you'd have to physically disconnect its power in.
You just need a roadie to keep plugging it in and out LOL
The best way would be having a signal from your amp(head) and a signal from mp1, both going to an A/B box then to a poweramp.
Two separate signals to a poweramp.
This way an A/B box will wok perfectly

Last edited by 6fingers; 05-23-2011 at 06:36 PM.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 06:38 PM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

With "some" amps, you can do it--only if using send and return



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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 06:44 PM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Is "some" = Behringer?
LOL
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6fingers View Post
Ada is a preamp and should never be in the effects loop.If you plug it there your amp's controls will colorize mp1's tone.
When you plug something to your amp power in, probably it turns off your amp's input cause you cannot have two imputs at the same time, even using an A/B box.
To hear your amp's input you'd have to physically disconnect its power in.
You just need a roadie to keep plugging it in and out LOL
The best way would be having a signal from your amp(head) and a signal from mp1, both going to an A/B box then to a poweramp.
Two separate signals to a poweramp.
This way an A/B box will wok perfectly
Thanks man, here is a sketch again, tell me how it looks:
brightstone.co.il/english/connections2.png
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 07:22 PM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by rg12 View Post
Thanks man, here is a sketch again, tell me how it looks:
brightstone.co.il/english/connections2.png
You should read your amp's manual , I think when you plug something to its POWER IN it cuts the sound from its input that's why when you choose (A/B) mp1, you can hear it but when you choose (A/B) your guitar, you hear nothing because input of your amp is off.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6fingers View Post
You should read your amp's manual , I think when you plug something to its POWER IN it cuts the sound from its input that's why when you choose (A/B) mp1, you can hear it but when you choose (A/B) your guitar, you hear nothing because input of your amp is off.
But that is the whole idea of the effects loop...to use the IN and then
the PRE OUT and from there to any effect and from the effect to the
PWR IN.

I guess AlaskaBat is right about having to use both SEND and RETURN jacks.

I will test it today by connecting the guitar to the IN jack and connecting
a cable from the PRE OUT to the PWR IN.

Thanks alot so far!
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 07:49 PM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by rg12 View Post
But that is the whole idea of the effects loop...to use the IN and then
the PRE OUT and from there to any effect and from the effect to the
PWR IN.

I guess AlaskaBat is right about having to use both SEND and RETURN jacks.

I will test it today by connecting the guitar to the IN jack and connecting
a cable from the PRE OUT to the PWR IN.

Thanks alot so far!
When you use a loop you have send and return BUT you're using power in.
Unless in your amp power in = loop return.
Like I said if you put mp1 in the loop your amp's controls will affect mp1 tone.
Your clean tone(guitar from input) will sound terrible with mp1 in the loop and mp1 will sound terrible with your amp controls set to match your clean guitar.
That way you can't have both working together but with separate tones.
In the loop one affect the other.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6fingers View Post
When you use a loop you have send and return BUT you're using power in.
Unless in your amp power in = loop return.
Like I said if you put mp1 in the loop your amp's controls will affect mp1 tone.
Your clean tone(guitar from input) will sound terrible with mp1 in the loop and mp1 will sound terrible with your amp controls set to match your clean guitar.
That way you can't have both working together but with separate tones.
In the loop one affect the other.
I think you didn't look at this:
brightstone.co.il/english/connections2.png

When i hit the A/B box button to change to the MP-1 channel
i straight into the PWR IN of the amp.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 08:33 PM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by rg12 View Post
I think you didn't look at this:
brightstone.co.il/english/connections2.png

When i hit the A/B box button to change to the MP-1 channel
i straight into the PWR IN of the amp.
Of course I looked it.
You're not understanding what I'm trying to say.
Let me try again.
YOU said using POWER IN there's no sound when you want only your guitar/amp sound(A/B box).
That means when you plug something into POWER IN it turns input of your amp off.
BUT if POWER IN = LOOP RETURN, you should be able to listen to your guitar without mp1 so there's a problem there.

Whatever is the problem putting mp1 in the loop means you'd never have both tones (amp and mp1) separate, they will always affect each others.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6fingers View Post
Of course I looked it.
You're not understanding what I'm trying to say.
Let me try again.
YOU said using POWER IN there's no sound when you want only your guitar/amp sound(A/B box).
That means when you plug something into POWER IN it turns input of your amp off.
BUT if POWER IN = LOOP RETURN, you should be able to listen to your guitar without mp1 so there's a problem there.

Whatever is the problem putting mp1 in the loop means you'd never have both tones (amp and mp1) separate, they will always affect each others.
Ok, now i understand what you'r saying...
So how can i find out if it's LOOP RETURN or POWER IN like it says on the amp?
Is there a difference between the two? the LOOP RETURN is an option
to connect something into the power amp...
Isn't it just how different amp companies name these jacks?

Edit: If im connected to the PWR IN jack on my amp, how can the preamp knobs
control the tone if the preamp circuit is bypassed?
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 10:38 PM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

You will find it out reading its manual.

1- send and return = your guitar enters your amp(input), get out through send and goes to any effects, then comes back through return and go to the poweramp section of your amp then to speakers.

2- A power in should be like if you have another amp(head) or mp1(hey you have it), when you plug it there it turns off input of your amp so it'd be this way = guitar to mp1 to power in to speakers.This way you can use your amp's power(signal won't pass through your amp's controls) to listen to any other gear you have.

But like I said if POWER IN = RETURN so you just have an effects loop and if you put mp1 there your guitar signal will always pass through your amp's controls, no matter that A/B box.So if you set an awesome clean sound with your amp controls, when you press the A/B box that clean tone will pass through your mp-1.Awesome clean + mp1 distortion = MASS.

Got it?
The only way to use both separate would be plugging your guitar into an A/B box and sending each signal to your amp and mp1.Then both(amp and mp1) to a poweramp + cabnet.
This way A/B box will choose which signal(amp or mp1) will be sent to poweramp + cabnet.

Best solution = Buy a poweramp to your mp1, ada poweramps are super cheap on evilbay, buy a 1X12 cab(or whatever cab you want).Split your guitar with an A/B box and send one signal to your amp(clean tone) and the other one to your mp1 set(distortion).
You just need an A/B box + ada poweramp(cheap as hell) + 1X12 cab(cheap too)

Hope it helped, if Fender called an loop return by power in....................................sue them lol
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6fingers View Post
You will find it out reading its manual.

1- send and return = your guitar enters your amp(input), get out through send and goes to any effects, then comes back through return and go to the poweramp section of your amp then to speakers.

2- A power in should be like if you have another amp(head) or mp1(hey you have it), when you plug it there it turns off input of your amp so it'd be this way = guitar to mp1 to power in to speakers.This way you can use your amp's power(signal won't pass through your amp's controls) to listen to any other gear you have.

But like I said if POWER IN = RETURN so you just have an effects loop and if you put mp1 there your guitar signal will always pass through your amp's controls, no matter that A/B box.So if you set an awesome clean sound with your amp controls, when you press the A/B box that clean tone will pass through your mp-1.Awesome clean + mp1 distortion = MASS.

Got it?
The only way to use both separate would be plugging your guitar into an A/B box and sending each signal to your amp and mp1.Then both(amp and mp1) to a poweramp + cabnet.
This way A/B box will choose which signal(amp or mp1) will be sent to poweramp + cabnet.

Best solution = Buy a poweramp to your mp1, ada poweramps are super cheap on evilbay, buy a 1X12 cab(or whatever cab you want).Split your guitar with an A/B box and send one signal to your amp(clean tone) and the other one to your mp1 set(distortion).
You just need an A/B box + ada poweramp(cheap as hell) + 1X12 cab(cheap too)

Hope it helped, if Fender called an loop return by power in....................................sue them lol
First of all, thanks alot for the time, i really appreciate it!

Now, let me tell you exactly what happens when i plug in whatever
and you tell me what do i need to call those jacks (return or power in).

When i plug a guitar into the regular IN jack and another guitar to the
jack called PWR IN, i get no guitar #1 and only guitar #2 is on (regular
IN cancelled) and the controls don't do anything (plugged straight to the
power amp).

When i plug a guitar into the regular IN and take another cable and
plug it from the PRE OUT to the PWR IN, i get regular effect as if my
guitar was connected only to the regular IN with nothing more.

From what i understand, the PWR IN is a jack that connects me to the
power amp and to the speaker without the amp's preamp.

The PRE OUT is from the preamp before it passes the power amp section.

Anyway, i found a way that my plan WILL work.
It will work if both the A/B and the HUB on my diagram will be both A/B
switches, BUT it's stupid to have to kick two switches to get from
clean to distortion, so what i need is a A/B that has one switch that
controls two channels at the same time (2 INs and 4 OUTs) which i don't
think i will ever find...and eventualy i will have to spend alot of time
building it myself.

I think it will look kind of silly if i would buy another power amp and cab
and use my big 2x12 fender for it's preamp only...
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 02:00 AM
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Re: Problem trying to connect to AMP and also to its POWER IN simultaneously

Don't plug your guitar into the PWR in on the amp--plug your MP1 in there.



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