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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-2011, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Recording gear

I am new to recording I want to get protools because its the "industry standard" and I basically want 2 inputs mic and 1/4" I am thinking about getting the mbox2 factory bundle with the monitors and the mic and the extra pakages. Will this be sufficient to record with? I basically want to be able to record 1 or 2 guitars or vocals I'm not trying to record drums. I already own a few mics, stands and cables. I don't have monitors though thus the reason I was thinking of going with this package. I was thinking of going with the factory package because the phone guy said if I call him back he'd drop the price 50 dollars. I'm not really trying to go over the 600 dollar range if theres a better option please advise. Thanks
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-2011, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Recording gear

this might help: I'm running a Vista 64 bit system witha 1.2 terabyte hd 8 gb ram. Intel quad 2 CPU Q8200 @2.33GHZ processor. I mainly want to be able to record guitars, bass, vocals everything but drums and I want it to sound professional.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 01:04 AM
 
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Re: Recording gear

You are being swindled. There is no such thing as "Industry Standard". There are better bang for your buck, as well as better DAWs out there.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 01:07 AM
 
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Re: Recording gear

I have a decent PC too, custom designed by me for gaming, but with a Creative XFi Elite Sound Card in it for recording, and to be honest I feel like I am as close to industry standard as I want to be. I use Cubase for recording, and for monitors I use a set of Shure 440s.

I believe to use ProTools with a PC, you need a ProTools approved audio card by M-audio too. And in the end, I read around the place that M-audio is laggy for VST effects anyway, not sure if that is true on the high end cards.

Instead of ProTools, I use Cubase SX for PC. With my soundcard I can record at 96KHz 24 bit which isn't quite 192KHz I know, but still very decent. I set the Creative ASIO from 1ms to 2ms to avoid a crackle sound, however I can not hear any lag at all. I had to change it to audio recording mode though (rather than gaming or entertainment mode), so the signal processing time dropped from that of a normal sound card down to 2ms too, was faster on 96KHz than 44KHz too. However I can't hear any lag when I play directly into Amplitube or other VST effects. The best part is the number of channels that I can load with VST effects before the CPU and RAM start to raise. I am let wondering myself what is so special with Macs and those M-audio cards to be honest.

For monitors, it depends on your use. Becareful buying unnessessary gear. I use a set of "closed" headphones for monitoring while recording, so no spill from the backing track ends up on the next track, which is important for editing later. And for mixing, the Shure 440s are referenced and have a flat response so fine there too. I just record one instrument at a time direct into the Creative Elite's DI Guitar input and record clean while monitoring with VST distortion and efftects. Then I mix down the track later with effects on once I have decided on the effects that I want. Alternatively I use my SM-57 on my amp, and directly into an mic channel. If I need to record a few instruments at the same time, I use my mixer and a few headsets, just running the mixer output either to USB or into my sound card. Actually that is where my sound card falls down, or PCs and Windows really, as you can only select one input at a time, but a mixer solves that. However unless you are all in seperate rooms, so no spill ends on other tracks, one channel at a time is fine. Hope that helps anyway, or at least save you some cash buying a studio package if you just want to record your band

Oh yeah you might want to fix the Vista thing. Real time recording is "said" to be best in XP, and worst in Vista too (I guess with the virtualisation part, it runs an OS inside an OS like Vmware to protect itself - don't quote me on that though lol). I just made a multiboot XP x86 partition on my Win7 x64 system, however careful installing XP after later OS's, you need to know about PCs and editing boot files and things. 64 Bit can be problematic too, however they are starting to provide better x64 support though which is awesome.

Last edited by RichardFX; 04-05-2011 at 01:55 AM.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 06:57 AM
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Re: Recording gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by musikron View Post
You are being swindled. There is no such thing as "Industry Standard". There are better bang for your buck, as well as better DAWs out there.
Oh yes there is.
With pro tools I can "communicate" to any studio,I can take my recording sessions to other studios and it makes my job really easier.I already worked for a lot of different studios and they all had/have pro tools.Hundreds of clients asked me by the phone - hey do you guys use pro tools there?
The question is will you need/want to take your stuff to other studios or accept/receive sessions from other guys/bands?
If yes go pro tools,if not use any DAW you want.
Pro tools is extremelly easy to use and in about 18 years I never had any problems like it shut down or messed up with a session,nothing is worse than when a musician is playing his best shot and DAW shut down and you have to tell him to stop,pro tools is VERY reliable
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 07:16 AM
 
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Re: Recording gear

I came back to chop most of my above post out, or at least warn that I am "not a pro" to advise properly.

I decided to leave it all there though, as I was just in a similar situation, new to recording, and wanting to record our band as cheaply as possible with my existing PC.

My only experience was in a backyard studio, and to be honest I find the recordings so much clearer with Cubase. I have no experience with ProTools though to compare. From what 6fingers says though, if you want to send it on to be mastered somewhere, maybe ProTools is the go.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 07:32 AM
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Re: Recording gear

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Originally Posted by RichardFX View Post
My only experience was in a backyard studio, and to be honest I find the recordings so much clearer with Cubase. I have no experience with ProTools though to compare. From what 6fingers says though, if you want to send it on to be mastered somewhere, maybe ProTools is the go.
If by "clearer" you mean better audio quality,audio comes from soundcards and not from DAWs,cubase doesn't sounds better than pro tools or vice versa cause DAWS don't have sound.The recordings which has the "clearer" sound are the ones which used better soundcards no matter what DAW was used,DAWs are just management softwares that allow you to manage your recorded tracks
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 09:04 AM
 
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Re: Recording gear

I was more trying to compare my non-Pro Tools gear with a home studio, but cheers for that information too, I was not 100% yet myself. Good point to make though. I understand that software record basically the same, if they have the same 24 bit 96k input etc, or whatever the input quality, however I did wonder myself if the ProTools processed VST effects any better or worse than Cubase (if given the same hardware) while we are here, and what is the big deal with ProTools? Or is it just the fact that ProTools is more universal that it is the Industry Standard? If all else is equal, then I guess even Audacity which is free and open source will do the job for most people who use a PC and are on a budget. However I guess if you have a decent sound card like an m-audio one, you wouldn't want to be feeding strawberries to pigs using a cheap recording program

I am curious what people think of the Creative Elite Pro, as they are a commerical type company, and it is not a specialised audiophile listening or a music recording card, they sort of try and do everything including gaming to boot lol, with the 3 modes you can set. I couldn't find a lot on them for recording, except I did read their opamps were a little cheap. It sounds fine to me, in the sense it is clear, and processes VST effects nicely, however I have had nothing to compare it to. Anything bad in the sound I just put down to my mixing skills, lol. Actually I just realised that I am yet to try the USB audio interface on an Allan & Heath ZED 10 FX that we bought to record the click tracks with us all playing live at once.

I guess M-audio is the industry standard for sound cards at the moment, I just had a look and they do make some pretty awesome looking sound cards. What are the cheaper models like for processing VST effects? I know a few people with laptops looking for a decent sound interface too, are their USB interfaces ok?

Last edited by RichardFX; 04-05-2011 at 09:29 AM.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 09:44 AM
 
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Re: Recording gear

I use Logic Studio 9. My interface is an Apogee Duet, KRK RP5 for monitors. Ableton is another great DAW.

Yes, a lot of people use PT, but a lot use Logic, Cubase, others as well.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 10:09 AM
 
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Re: Recording gear

There is no industry standard, it is all marketing hype. I have been a session guitarist for the last 20 years, and the only thing standard now a days is the .WAV format. Logic, Prtools, Cubase, all are going to record in a format that can be ported to another DAW east peasy.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 06:06 PM
 
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Re: Recording gear

Another no industry standard person here. It's all marketing. And most big boy studios that I've been in have multiple DAWs on hand so that you can use whatever you bring. Pro-Tools is so popular because it was the first widely accepted DAW, not necessarily because it is currently the best.
Also, whatever DAW you choose, it will havezero effect on recording quality. It's all about the hardware you're using to record and the sources that you record with. Software just gets what comes through those. Hardware will be more important than the software DAW you use for achieving a professional sound. Even saying that, a lot more of it is knowing how to use what gear you have than spending bank on "the perfect piece of gear."
I would recommend Killer Home Recording if you're looking for deeper input and to skip some of the trial and error.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-17-2011, 06:44 PM
 
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Re: Recording gear

I got an 8 track digital tascam with a cd burner and it works great for recording live shows. just plug in the monitor with some drum mikes going in to the monitor and i'm set. it does have some limitations though
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-18-2011, 10:49 PM
 
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Re: Recording gear

Cheers guys, yeah a few months ago, I was really quite stuck wondering what gear to buy like the original starter of this thread, so was trying to help. I just wanted to record the band I was in at studio quality.

Even though recording at home this time on a PC, I was a bit confused, and still went out an got my SM57s to do a milking blend from my amp, a small mixer (Allen&Heath ZED10FX), good cable and things, and now realise I am doing most of it will VST effects, and a guitar or vocal microphone straight into the PC. The mixer and mic are now still useful to record live click tracks though.

I find it hilarious listening to the 'backyard' studio version of our last album now. I realise what happened now, the guy had 'spill' from my solo guitar onto every other track, so when I listen to the CD, it sounds like there are 2 solo guitars as I redid my take. Nevermind it all sounding flat. I do realise he only had a 20k studio or whatever, not a flash one, but he had an isolated room, a mixing desk with monitor speakers outside the recording room. Perhaps it was his skills rather than his gear, however we thought the final product could of been a lot better.

After recording at home on a PC, I don't think I could look back. There is zero background noise with guitar DI, and you can record clean while monitoring with effects, and change the sound on your guitar later. I guess everyone agrees the leading software packages all do a decent job, I am now wondering about hardware.

I am quite stoked myself with the performance I get on this home built gaming PC with a consumer brand soundcard. Looking through the catologues, you can spend up to 12k on an 'industry standard' sound card, nevermind the 12k MACs you can buy to stick them into (which now use Intel CPUs anyway, haha). I would like to know what more you get for your money with an industry soundcard? Is it the preamps, opamps, mic preamps, Digital to Anologue Transfer? This Creative XFi elite seems to handle whatever I throw at it anyway, from multiple VST effects, to VST instruments. It records at 24bit 96KHz (has a 32bit float option), which I know isn't 32bit 192KHz, but still pretty good. So while we are here, I am just wondering what more you get for your money buying high end sound cards? Is it a different quality clarity despite bitrate?

I also wonder what is the big deal with MACs? My DFI x58 Motherboard and Corsair Dominitor RAM with an i7 quad core 3.2GHz with HT is about the faster and lowest latency gear on the planet, and it only cost a fraction of the price of say even a G5 mac. I have seen Mac with motherboards similar to sever gear with multiple CPUs (4xquadcores, thus advertised as a 12 CPU PC lol) for 12k. However I don't notice any CPU usage while I am recording anyway, it is the latency that is important. I noticed some virtual instruments like Addictive Drums brought the system RAM usage up to 20% (as using 32 bit OS, so only sees 3.6Gb RAM), however there is unnoticable CPU or RAM resource usage during a normal 10 track recording with VST effects such as Amplitube. I am not quite into midi yet though. So is Apple Mac gear any better, or is it just expensive cause Mac like to build it themselves, lol. I know in the past Macs used to have SCSI HDDs in them and things, however it is all SATA now I think, and they use Intel CPUs too. Unless someone corrects me, I think using a Mac to record is just a 'tradition', like using ProTools.

Last edited by RichardFX; 04-18-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-18-2011, 11:11 PM
 
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Re: Recording gear

RichardFX

If you are serious at all about recording audio, you NEED to immerse yourself in this site-
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

This is hands down the best resource on the net on this topic. The forums there are also top notch.

I could spend hours writing out the answers to your questions and so much more, but could never say it as well as this site does. There is a great forum community there as well. Do yourself a favor and spend the next two weeks reading every word before you spend another dime. You haven't screwed yourself yet, but it's very easy to.

And yes, that soundcard you have is garbage, its not meant to record audio. Will it, sure! But you are missing out on a lot of functionality, quality, and reliability.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-18-2011, 11:25 PM
 
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Re: Recording gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by musikron View Post
RichardFX

If you are serious at all about recording audio, you NEED to immerse yourself in this site-
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

This is hands down the best resource on the net on this topic. The forums there are also top notch.
you beat me to it!!
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