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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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The Solid State Stigma

Why does the stigma against solid state still exist among guitarists? Shouldn't we embrace new more efficient technology? Bass players do, all of the most revered name in bass amplification are solid state.

Solid state amps can sound and play awesome. Hell, the Roland Cubes are evidence of that. I would love a Cube 15xl head.
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 01:01 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

I think its more personal preference, people don't mind solid states but they like the power behind a tube amp, and the vintage tones that can be produced, im not saying that a solid state cannot do that but a tube amp does it better i feel. They'll catch on but it will take a little longer because alot of old timers are reluctant to change. Just my opinion though.
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 01:11 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat View Post
Why does the stigma against solid state still exist among guitarists? Shouldn't we embrace new more efficient technology? Bass players do, all of the most revered name in bass amplification are solid state.

Solid state amps can sound and play awesome. Hell, the Roland Cubes are evidence of that. I would love a Cube 15xl head.
Good post and I'm sure a spirited debate will ensue.

I had a Roland cube. It was junk. Please don't take offense to that as it's just my opinion. Solid state keeps trying to "emulate" tubes but the simple fact of the matter is nothing will ever replace the real thing as far as pure tone, feel, etc.

So to answer your question, the stigma exists because solid state hasn't done anything, even with new tech, to shake said stigma. Sure, it sounds better than it used to. I got a cheapy Peavey Vyper to lug with me on vacations. It's decent enough for practicing but circuit boards and microchips will always = sterility. I think the popularity has grown somewhat because there are less and less tone hounds amongst players. I seldom hear anyone with remarkable lead tone anymore. Mark Tremonti is the last guy to emerge on the scene (and that was years ago) who really knew tone and how to achieve it.

"Keep is simple stupid" is a motto that has always been relevant to great guitar sound. Tube tech is so dreadfully simple and that is why its so good...because the least amount of complication between fingers and speaker will give you the most pure and accurate fundamental tone. That's why a guy with a strat going into an old Fender tube amp will sound so much more full and beautiful than the dude with the axefx2 on a simulated clean channel.

We should only embrace something if it's superior... and for no other reason than that.
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 01:50 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

Solid state always seems to have a slightly (some better and some much worse) fizzy/buzzy sound to it's overdrive/distortion. Some are better and some are worse, but in terms of looking at efficiency from another perspective, it seems to take a great deal of work with research and development to engineer a solid-state distortion that pleases the tube-o-philes. I think it's a lot harder to get a solid-state overdrive circuit to sound like a good tube overdrive, and for the extra effort, while it might be more expensive, it's probably much simpler to just use a tube or three.
But I'm all for progress, so I hope they keep trying
I don't mind a solid state overdrive if I'm playing chunky rhythmic chords, but if I'm playing a solo or working on my Satriani technique, the tube seems to feel a lot better...which probably means I need to smooth out my technique :P
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 01:56 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

The Bandit has been around since the 80's and is good arguably the older ones have a better sound, mines a 65 with a scorpion speaker, It has a superb clean and decent OD wouldnt be enough gain for modern metal players, and the reverb is really really nice does it match up to the valve amps I've had with the exception of the HT-5 which doesent have a true valve preamp section (I personally think the HT's sound incredibly fizzy and are not as good as the hype) no, it isnt as good, not far off and more than decent.

The 6505+ 112 and valveking 212 I still have do sound better, doese that make the solid state amps bad no.

I have yet to finda cube that blew me away with it's od incredibly fizzy and flat the JC clean is nice but eveything else falls flat when compared to the other stuff out there especially the new msutangs...

Just curious what other amps have you owned or had time to really play around with? and playing a dual recto at super quiet store volumes won't leave a good impression...

There's a good reason that solid states have never truely overtaken valves even if there are some great SS amps around, Peavey offering agood choice...Some of the crate amps were pretty good the flexwave and shockwave head were supposed to be really nice, Dimebag Darrell used an RG100ES randall amp theres a reissue sig head out now that sounds pretty good especially for the price.

There wouldnt be any point in roland offeringa cube 15 head It makes sense to offer low wattage valve amps like that but solid state's are not always as loud as valves, certain frequencies cannot be mimiced even on the closest most advanced modelers a valve amp will still have a certain something.

If you have an experienced friend witha decent ear and can tweak an amp competantly or a good store that will set up a valveamp it might be worth checking out...generally once you have hit that E chord and hear the notes sustain it will put a grin on your face...

Would be nice If peavey developed the bandit even more offering a better reverb, and mode selection on the channels or a head version too...
however there probably isnt money in doing that...
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 01:57 PM
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat View Post
Solid state amps can sound and play awesome. Hell, the Roland Cubes are evidence of that. I would love a Cube 15xl head.
Tone is always in the ear of the beholder, but, as an example...

Roland Cube 15xl or Mesa Boogie Mk V? Hmmmm...
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 02:11 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

I used to shrug off tube amps when I was starting on the guitar. Figured they were too expensive for little difference in tone. But as the years went on, and my playing got better, more and more I noticed how big the difference still is. I own a Laney LV-200 right now, which has a really nice clean tone, but the distortion channels don't cut it at all. So for now I got a tube pedal that is doing ok, but I'm already thinking about buying an all-tube amp. The money I spent on GT-10, Laney LV-200 and two distortion pedals was probably enough to buy a good tube amp. But, you live and learn
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 02:25 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

I played a Crate 2x12 for the better part of 20 years before going tube. I used to like the sound I got plugging straight in. Then I really liked it when I put a Digitech RP300 in front of it. Then the amp started crapping out on me, so I stopped playing for almost a year (along with life getting in the way). I plug back in and either the amp changed or my ear changed because it sounded like fizzy garbage with no depth regardless of any tweaking. So I started shopping tube amps after a little peer pressure and holy crap what a difference in sound the tubes make. Fast forward to now and I'm like a pig in mud with my Peavey Valveking 112. I don't anticipate going back to solid state anytime soon. I think a great in-between would be a Marshall Valvestate, solid state power with a tube preamp.
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 02:55 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat View Post
Why does the stigma against solid state still exist among guitarists? Shouldn't we embrace new more efficient technology? Bass players do, all of the most revered name in bass amplification are solid state.

Solid state amps can sound and play awesome. Hell, the Roland Cubes are evidence of that. I would love a Cube 15xl head.


This kind of stuff always come from people that have never played with a real tube amp. They are not even closed to tubes man, that's the reason.
It is imposible to match the distortion of a tube amp, the power of a tube amp and the feeling they give you to your fingers when you play.
Do this excercise. Turn UP the volume, loud loud loud... your solid state is gonna show you is crap... the tube amp is gonna sound better and better...

The best try are the hibrid amps, with the tube preamp and solid state amp, but they still not even close. They can't match the tubes and they never gona do it, that's why
people still using tubes.
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 04:48 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

It's quite simple - why would you buy something that tries to emulate a valve amp when you can just buy a valve amp?

Seriously though, SS is great for clean guitar, it's just very few models get the gain part right. It hardly ever sounds as good as valve. Modelling is coming on leaps and bounds, though. Things like the Eleven Rack and AxeFX sound as good as valve amps. I think the bottom line is that new technology will never sound better than an old-fashioned valve amp, the best it can hope for is to sound as good.
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by jono View Post
Tone is always in the ear of the beholder, but, as an example...

Roland Cube 15xl or Mesa Boogie Mk V? Hmmmm...

Mesa MK V is awesome, but way too powerful for what I need. A Cube 15xl head through a 4x12 on the other hand would sound like a monster and would sound just as good on a volume of one as a volume of 10.

That's the key disadvantage of tube amps. I love the H&K Tubemeister 18, but only when the MV hit about 7 or so. On low volume all of the balls went out of the amp. I just couldn't get what I got at higher volume.

Some of us have wife's who don't really appreciate our passion, so loud ass amps (always fun of course) just aren't in the cards.

I love great tube amps, but from a real life POV they just aren't in the cards. Why not have a small, light weight, maintenance free package that will deliver the goods? I'm not a gear snob so I'm not buying a brand for status.

This is what I want out of an amp.
High Gain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-FpcyrvsNI

Clean: (much less important)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8UR2TFUp8w

Believe it or not, on the Cube 15xl's Extreme mode , tuning down to drop A I can get pretty close to that early Carcass gain, the pinner speaker doesn't help
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungisul View Post
This kind of stuff always come from people that have never played with a real tube amp. They are not even closed to tubes man, that's the reason.
It is imposible to match the distortion of a tube amp, the power of a tube amp and the feeling they give you to your fingers when you play.
Do this excercise. Turn UP the volume, loud loud loud... your solid state is gonna show you is crap... the tube amp is gonna sound better and better...

The best try are the hibrid amps, with the tube preamp and solid state amp, but they still not even close. They can't match the tubes and they never gona do it, that's why
people still using tubes.

I'm not a big fan of generalized assumptions. Loud, loud, loud tube amps sound great. Divorce court doesn't.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 05:35 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

the 2 solid state amps I have used and loved the most were the JC120 and an old tuck and roll Kustom 250 head that I still use as a back up. I like tubes better and play through a tube head but I still think my little peavey vypyr sound amazing for what its worth. I use it to record all the time
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 05:36 PM
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

I downsized from a Mesa Mark V to a Blackstar HT5-R combo

For $450, it has a better clean than the Mesa and a really good gain character. Very high gain too if that's what one needs. A good tube amp doesn't have to cost a fortune. Some very good amps under 1k these days.
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: The Solid State Stigma

I seen tube amps be rather inconsistent too. I've played on some Dual Recto's that were monsters, my best friend has one that's a dog. I get that's how it goes. I've never played on a tube stock Marshall that I've liked, but that's me, plenty of people like their tone. I have never found them to have hi gain, YMMV.
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