Some SERIOUS tone observations! re: scofield - Jemsite
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-22-2003, 04:23 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Leeds, UK - San Antonio, TX
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Some SERIOUS tone observations! re: scofield

Howdy,

the other week I went to see john scofields uberjam band live, and it was mind blowing etc etc...but i want to tell you people about his tone.

It was the fattest nicest thing and almost IDENTICAL in fact yes i'll say exactly the same tone he got on the album recording.

Whats so weird about this? Lots of people have supposed great tone hey??

But what has made me start thinking about gear and tone etc is that this equipment GAS thing we shove ourselves into is a load of bollocks.

First of all people who say lots of pedals sucks your tone...scofield had 2 HUGE and I mean HUGE pedalboards wiith many diferent effects. And shockingly he uses a digitech whammy XP-100 yes you read right the XP-100

Now I'd heard such bad bad things about these, how they sound worse than a camel being sick etc and huge signal delay times I couldn't believe what I was hearing. And it made me start to realise that it really doesn't matter about gear.

A good guitar and a tube amp is all you need for fantastic tone, and if you have to worry about certain effects not being "tru-bypass" or a crappy reissue of a better older product then i think you should go back and practise unplugged some more. I know I am. After seeing Scofield with with such gear that ordinary guys use (ok so he had a LOT of ordinary gear) its made me realise just how much the guitar amp and FINGERS really are.

Just some ramblings ....track
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-22-2003, 05:04 AM
 
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Yeppers, tone is in the 'fingers'
Al M is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-22-2003, 09:43 AM
 
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Tone isn't in the fingers, it's in your guitar, amp, effects, cables, etc. Your fingers control those tones, and are capable of bringing out all the potential sounds within your gear. Whether or not you get out any good sounds depends on how much time and practice you spend with your equipment.

Cool, I think I'll check out some Scofield stuff today. I've heard that he has a great sound.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-22-2003, 10:13 AM
 
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I was just at Scofield's site. Yep, he has a lot of pedals. It looks to me like he has one of those custom pedal boards. I bet it has signal buffering, but I'm no expert. Still listen to some of his music. Thats what I meant to do, but the equipment page was there and well, you know the rest
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-22-2003, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarkatana
Tone isn't in the fingers, it's in your guitar, amp, effects, cables, etc. Your fingers control those tones, and are capable of bringing out all the potential sounds within your gear. Whether or not you get out any good sounds depends on how much time and practice you spend with your equipment.

Cool, I think I'll check out some Scofield stuff today. I've heard that he has a great sound.
Those things definately help, but tone is also a product of the interaction of your fingers and pick with the strings and fingerboard. Spend some serious time playing unplugged, practicing legato, and you'll begin to hear what i mean. I didn't believe it either until i playtested a TSL head and couldn't believe how sloppy and indistinct my legato sounded through it. Spent some time woodshedding and paying attenting to fingertone, and gave it another go a month later, and heard a huge difference. Spend some time with just you and your guitar.

-D
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-22-2003, 06:53 PM
 
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Ive said this before. Tone isnt in the fingers and it is. If tone doesnt have alot to do with equipment, then guitarists would play whatever was around. You wouldnt have guys scouring the globe for stuff they like or artists using the same rig religiously for 20 years.

At the same time an artist will sound like themselves no matter what theyre playing through. But thier tone will sound different when they use different equipment.

Al Dimeola said it best. "A pro guitarist may sound better with a $50 guitar and amp rigg then a beginner or hobbiest, but he wont sound anywhere near as good as he does when playing his own rig. A good tone is inspiring and commands you to play better."

When someone asks what equipment someone uses in a post, I pay them the respect of not being another voice saying "tone is in thier fingers," becouse whether a person understands that or not, my repeating that isnt helping them to.
Dan D Mahnn is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-23-2003, 06:01 AM Thread Starter
 
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Location: Leeds, UK - San Antonio, TX
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Look believe me I know more than most about how bad gear is discouraging..i only just last year got my first real amplifer and before that i had been playing 10 years...

but like most things i was still able to get good sounds out of lesser gear. But when i did get the mesa boogie man did tone just jump out of it easier than it ever had been before.

Same with guitars, i learnt to play most satch and vai tunes on an old fender squire strat (heavily overbending to compensate for the lack of frets) so when i finally got an RG it was real easy.

If you learn with bad gear it forces you to play harder and more correctly...when you then get the hot stuff it seems like its easy.

I think you have to be realistic about this, to SOME extent tone is in the equpiment as in you cant expect to get a REAL sound out of a copy type guitar 60 pounds zoom processor and a 15 wat marshall practise amp. (no offence to anyone that has those I started on all of that myself). But if you are in the general area of a well setup good guitar (of any type) and a valve/tube amplifier coupled with a few stomp boxes then the only excuse for bad tone is faulty gear or dodge fingers.

My opinion anyway

Track
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-23-2003, 01:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan D Mahnn
Ive said this before. Tone isnt in the fingers and it is. If tone doesnt have alot to do with equipment, then guitarists would play whatever was around. You wouldnt have guys scouring the globe for stuff they like or artists using the same rig religiously for 20 years.

At the same time an artist will sound like themselves no matter what theyre playing through. But thier tone will sound different when they use different equipment.

Al Dimeola said it best. "A pro guitarist may sound better with a $50 guitar and amp rigg then a beginner or hobbiest, but he wont sound anywhere near as good as he does when playing his own rig. A good tone is inspiring and commands you to play better."

When someone asks what equipment someone uses in a post, I pay them the respect of not being another voice saying "tone is in thier fingers," becouse whether a person understands that or not, my repeating that isnt helping them to.
Great post...balance, factual, good use of historical quotation. If we could rate posts I'd give it a solid 4.5 stars...maybe even 5!
Greg
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-24-2003, 08:48 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
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could go both ways

yes, equipment does have a big effect on one's tone. lets face it, you couldnt play megadeth through a fender deluxe reverb and a tele. the type of pickups, body wood, and amp type have the most effect.

but, to say that the fingers have no effect on your tone is absolutely absurd. id say it even goes as far as 75/25 with the fingers being the most important. you put someone like david gilmour (pink floyd) who has an incredibly light touch on the instrument, and you have someone like SRV who was brutal to his guitar, and you have them play through the same equipment, they wont sound nearly the same

ive gone into guitar stores and had friends play the same equipment with the same axe and settings and they have sounded a great deal different.

also, gear doesnt have that big an effect either. sure, youre probably not going to sound like eric johnson with a squier tele and a solid state marshall practice amp, but then again you wouldnt sound like johnson if you were playing his exact equipment either. I play through a line 6 flextone iii with a carvin dc127 with a floyd and evolutions, and i have a tone that is unique to me. I sound the same through my current set up as i did with my old peice of **** solid state peavey amp (that weighs over 80 lbs, i hate heavy amps) with my pandora px4.

it is my opinion that it isnt the fingers, nor the equipment, but it is your technique and most importantly, your approach to the instrument. once again, you could have someone who has a very cerebral approach to the instrument and someone who is very aggressive musically and have them play the exact same thing, and it would sound different.
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david gilmour , digitech whammy , eric johnson , fender deluxe , fender deluxe reverb , flextone iii , john scofield , mesa boogie , peavey amp , pedal board , pink floyd , practice amp , squire strat , stomp box , tube amp

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