Vol pedal in FXloop help. Answer to low volume tube heaven? - Jemsite
Gear, Equipment, Recording & Off Topic Gear, Equipment, and Recording discussed here. Amps, pedals, whatever.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2004, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Leeds, UK - San Antonio, TX
Posts: 351
Vol pedal in FXloop help. Answer to low volume tube heaven?

Hi i recently got the Little Alligator volume pedal and have been experimenting with where to place it, in front of the amp or in the FX loop.

And something hit me earlier today. I use a mesa boogie nomad 45 which is incredibly yet still sounds pretty good at low levels. ALthough not as good cranked obviously.

Yet when I put the volume pedal in the FX loop i could turn up the master and output on the amp to a good cranked position but have the pedal in almost full heel down position (volume very low) and the tone was incredible. Just like when its cranked without any vol pedal. Smooth, singing, creamy wonderful.

The thing is WHY!?! and more worryingly is this in anyway damging to the amp? Surley if it was this easy then there would be no one buying attenuators - which was next on my purchase list, however if someone can tell me that this trick with the vol pedal isn't hurting my amp then i dont think i need one.

Thanks in advance

David
track7 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2004, 03:13 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bangor, WA
Posts: 644
David,
I don't think you are damaging the amp, as far as I know. With the pedal in the effects loop, you essentially process the signal AFTER the preamp stage, I believe, but before it goes to the poweramp, as opposed to in front of the amp, which controls how much signal actually gets "pre-amplified."

When you bring the pedal back, you are essentially sending less of the signal "X" to the speakers. Your preamp- and power amp-defined tonal characteristics won't change, since the gain stages have already affected the signal. This is also the way guitarist have done volume swells (Steve Morse for example) for a long time. This is the only way I know to do so with a pedal, in fact.

I think this is how it works, but anyone with different opinions/info, please chime in!

Abe
trouble311 is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2004, 04:28 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nr. Liverpool, UK
Posts: 868
Seems like an interesting Idea. Send a normal, but quieter pre amp signal to your power amp (even with the volume up) and amplify less of it, therefore resulting in a quiter output...I like! I will have to try it once I get an amp that works .
The only thing I can see wrong with this is that yes, it will allow to turn your pre amp up more, but there will be no improvment in power amp tone, as that will be running at the same volume no matter what. I suppose you really want it between the output of the amp and the speakers, but for some reason I doubt that would do it much good. Am I right?

-better shred than dead-ANDY
Jammy is offline  
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2004, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Leeds, UK - San Antonio, TX
Posts: 351
Thanks guys,

i know what you're saying and i thought this too but i cant understand why it sounds so good at low volumes this way. For example if i have the main output low and the chanel master low instead of doing it this new way it sounds a lot more buzzy and less smooth.

I might give mesa a call about this out of curiosity and see what they say. If anyone else has any ideas they'd be appreciated

Thanks again

David
track7 is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2004, 09:03 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 115
A friend of mine does the same thing with his Budda Stringmaster. I dont understand how it helps his tone, because youre getting the same amount of signal to the power amp, but it does. Ive heard it both ways, and there is a definite change in tonal characteristics. He claims that its raising the voltage to the powertubes (Or something lke that), making them run hotter and sweeter at lower volumes. Of course it sounds much better cranked, but there is quite a bit of difference when played at lower volumes.
frethack is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2004, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Leeds, UK - San Antonio, TX
Posts: 351
Man i'm totally freaking out here its so god damned amazing!

I've been playing ALL morning I cant stop (bar checking the forum).

I dont understand it, it HAS to be doing something cause its a very sweet warm creamy tone at a volume my flat mates can live with

man i recommend everyone try this!

woo hoo

i'm happy!

David
track7 is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-24-2004, 01:31 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Va Beach, VA
Posts: 1,416
I've been doing this for a long time. My reasons were different though...I just wanted to be able to adjust overall volume without affecting the amount of gain in the signal. A volume pedal in front of the preamp section is just the same as using your volume on your guitar and you can dial out all the gain that way. I wanted full gain with overall control. I never really tried to use it to run the power amp harder, but it would definitely do the trick.

I do love the way the nomad sounds fully opened up, sounds like you found a way to get it all the time.
Gresh is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 03:50 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 304
For "proper" power tube saturation you need the master volume cranked, and to be hitting the power amp with a nice hefty signal. Cutting the volume before the power amp will prevent this - but it's quite possible that having the master volume cranked, with a smaller input, will sound different from having the master volume lower with a higher input.

If it sounds good to you then go for it - it's not doing the same job as an attenuator, but it's the end results that matter.
dot-dot-dot is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 10:18 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maine (USA)
Posts: 1,628
Just don't actually push the pedal down... Ouch!!!
bpd111 is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 02:09 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 215
Reviews: 3
hahaha yeah.... BOOM!
vai n maiden is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2004, 05:18 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 1,357
I had done this for quite a few years... it's a great tip for regulating the volume of an amp and still maintaining good tone.

Only watchout I have... I was warned to only use passive volume pedals, not active volume pedals. Theoretically an active pedal (with a built-in boost) could hit the power amp section harder than it's expecting. Not sure if that's really an issue or not, again, just somthing I was warned about.

The vast majority of volume pedals are passive anyway, so probably not a big deal!

--B
bduersch is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-27-2004, 03:44 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 5,711
the active- passive volume issue is right on. if you send ANY gain device thru the FX loop you could damage your amp.
i've seen people mess up some good amps running processors using the distortion thru an FX loop and as Mr.Mackey says, "Children, um, ok, that's bad".

Music is something bigger and greater than myself and I'm just glad to be a part of it. -TJ

A wise man once told me, "never discuss politics or religion in a disco enviroment" -Frank Zappa
screamndemon69 is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-27-2004, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Leeds, UK - San Antonio, TX
Posts: 351
Thats strange the little alligator is an active vol pedal, but in their manual it says its designed for both before the amp AND in the FX loop..

am I damaging my amp!?!

Help!!

David
track7 is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-27-2004, 05:24 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 1,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by track7
Thats strange the little alligator is an active vol pedal, but in their manual it says its designed for both before the amp AND in the FX loop..

am I damaging my amp!?!
Probably not... if memory serves me correctly, the Little Alligator (since it doesn't use pots, but rather LEDs) is technically an active (powered) device. However, I don't believe you can generate any boost of the L.A. (e.g., sweep goes from 0% to 100%), so I think it should be safe. I used an L.A. in my FX loop for a while without any problems.

Now if the pedal had a boost switch on it (e.g., boost to 110% or 120% output), that would be an active pedal to steer clear of.

--B
bduersch is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-27-2004, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Leeds, UK - San Antonio, TX
Posts: 351
Ahh right i think I get it now...

phew! thanks bduersch i cou;dn't believe that I was gonna have to stop doing it...it souds soooo good!

David
track7 is offline  
Reply

Tags
amp tone , boogie nomad , mesa boogie , mesa boogie nomad , power amp , power tube saturation , steve morse , thd hotplate , tube amp , tube saturation , volume pedal , volume pedals

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jemsite forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address

IMPORTANT: You will be required to activate your account so please ensure that your email address is correct.

If you do not receive your activation check your spam folder before using the CONTACT US form (at the bottom right of each page).



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS/FT: Tascom CD-GT1MKII, Kempur Strap, Ibanez 7th Heaven Pedal, Hipshot Tremsetter ajdehoogh Classified Ads: Guitars and Gear 3 09-02-2005 11:50 PM
FS: Line 6 MM4 pedal, Morley PVO volume pedal luther Classified Ads: Guitars and Gear 0 06-17-2005 11:55 AM
RG7420 trem and 7th Heaven Tone Lok Pedal---What do u think? CornedBeef7 All Other Guitars (including Prestige) 5 05-27-2002 06:56 AM
Expression Pedal? - which volume pedal will work? mikek Gear, Equipment, Recording & Off Topic 1 01-02-2001 07:39 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome