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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 02:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question high output + low magnetic field pickups.

In a previous thread I opened some time before someone said some high output pickups might have a low magnetic field.

That means there might be a high output pickup that I can put relly close to the strings without decreasing the sustain.

I am really interested in that. If anyone knows a pickups like that just let me know. Also let me know how could I identify such a pickup.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 03:32 AM
 
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Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

I think what they ment was by having a high output pickup you can lower the pickup so that it doesn't have to be close to the strings in order to get the same power/sound as a lower output pickup.

If your looking for low string pull you may consider going active, as they dont have large magnets but can still deliver a lot of power.

I suggest checking out seymour duncan for actives.

I have a dimarzio steve morese model and it was designed with a lot of power so the pickup could set deeper into the guitar. The Dimarzio X2N is also an extermly high ouput pickup that needs to set further down into the guitar then most others because of how strong the magnet is.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Talking Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j.arledge View Post
I think what they ment was by having a high output pickup you can lower the pickup so that it doesn't have to be close to the strings in order to get the same power/sound as a lower output pickup.

If your looking for low string pull you may consider going active, as they dont have large magnets but can still deliver a lot of power.

I suggest checking out seymour duncan for actives.

I have a dimarzio steve morese model and it was designed with a lot of power so the pickup could set deeper into the guitar. The Dimarzio X2N is also an extermly high ouput pickup that needs to set further down into the guitar then most others because of how strong the magnet is.
"Those are output values, not a measure of magnetic field strength. The exact same magnets can give different output values depending on other factors in pick-up construction."

These are the exact words I received as a reply on that thread.

"raising the magnetic field is only one way of increasing pickup output. Putting more turns in the wire also increases the output of the pickup, not to mention it is fairly common for active pickups to have lower outputs from the magnetic pickup than a passive pickup, despite the fact they usually have higher outputs after going through the active circuitry.

Output can't be used to gauge relative field strength on a guitar pickup unless you know for a fact that the pickups are identical in every way except for magnetic strength. It is a factor, but it isn't an exclusive one and you can overall raise output without touching that value."

This was the second reply I received.

This means I can find a pickup with high output values that has a low magnetic field.

This was posted y user Matheau. I invited him to explain that and I ask him to name one pickup that has a low magnetic field and high output value.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 04:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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Wink Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

One more thing:

I don't consider active pickups. I am not interested about that kind of pickups.

Everything in here is only about passive pickups.

Anything about active pickups WILL BE IGNORED.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 08:07 PM
 
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Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

Well Tone Zone and Breed Bridge are High output pickups and have the same alnico V bar that for example have the EJ Custom neck

So you have with the same alinco v bar one pickup with an output of 178 mv and another of 375 mv, all because the winding of the pickups
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2008, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _FR0D0 View Post
Well Tone Zone and Breed Bridge are High output pickups and have the same alnico V bar that for example have the EJ Custom neck

So you have with the same alinco v bar one pickup with an output of 178 mv and another of 375 mv, all because the winding of the pickups

Thanks man. It was a good one.

I have one more question for you.

Someone told me a pickup with the same magnet but higher output is muddier. Is it true?
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2008, 03:54 PM
 
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Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

could be, but it is more complex than that, with more wire in your pickups bobbins you increment both the impedance and resistance of the pickup, and remember that one of the bobbins wire end will be connected to ground, giving you a low pass filter in one end and a hi pass filter at the other end, so with more wire you are cutting frequencies of both extremes. But the question is whenever are those frequencies audible, and more important, actually produced my the string vibration.

The thing gets more complicated if you consider that making a not so regular pattern in the bobbin winding makes the increase in capacitance much lower, so you can add more power to the pickup without losing that much hight end.

Also yo have to consider that with humbukers, they cancel some frequencies out (they are designed to do so), and in the case of dual resonance (some Dimarzios) or hand wounded pickups that cancellation could be lowered.


So there is not a simple answer to that question.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2008, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
 
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Talking Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _FR0D0 View Post
could be, but it is more complex than that, with more wire in your pickups bobbins you increment both the impedance and resistance of the pickup, and remember that one of the bobbins wire end will be connected to ground, giving you a low pass filter in one end and a hi pass filter at the other end, so with more wire you are cutting frequencies of both extremes. But the question is whenever are those frequencies audible, and more important, actually produced my the string vibration.

The thing gets more complicated if you consider that making a not so regular pattern in the bobbin winding makes the increase in capacitance much lower, so you can add more power to the pickup without losing that much hight end.

Also yo have to consider that with humbukers, they cancel some frequencies out (they are designed to do so), and in the case of dual resonance (some Dimarzios) or hand wounded pickups that cancellation could be lowered.


So there is not a simple answer to that question.
There were some technical details that I don't fully understand because I am not an electronist or something. Once I tried to get into that stuff based on explanations from my brother who works for his master degree in Italy. I messed things up really bad. I just cannot understand that kind of stuff very well. I need to learn way more physics than I know.

Now I just have 2 question for you.

Can you tell me in which ones from DiMarzio the cancelation is lower? I am really intersted in that.

Bare Knuckles pickups are hand wounded as far as I know. Is that cancelation lower in Bare Knuckle pups?

Thank You.

Last edited by Orochimaru; 12-19-2008 at 04:21 PM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2008, 06:05 PM
 
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Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orochimaru View Post
There were some technical details that I don't fully understand because I am not an electronist or something. Once I tried to get into that stuff based on explanations from my brother who works for his master degree in Italy. I messed things up really bad. I just cannot understand that kind of stuff very well. I need to learn way more physics than I know.

Now I just have 2 question for you.

Can you tell me in which ones from DiMarzio the cancelation is lower? I am really intersted in that.
Everything with "Dual Resonance" (pat 4,501,185), but also is not a hard rule, those pickups use that technique to get their sound (different winding in each coil) but that is to achieve different kind of sounds:
for example Humbuker from the hell and Tone Zone could be viewed as total opposite pickups and both use "Dual Resonance". But I think the best example of "Dual Resonance" is the Steve's Special

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orochimaru View Post
Bare Knuckles pickups are hand wounded as far as I know. Is that cancelation lower in Bare Knuckle pups?
yes
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2008, 06:26 PM
 
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Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

Quote:
That means there might be a high output pickup that I can put relly close to the strings without decreasing the sustain.

I am really interested in that. If anyone knows a pickups like that just let me know. Also let me know how could I identify such a pickup.
... I got a BKP Ceramic Warpig a month or so ago which went to an S540FM with a DiMarzio Norton in the neck. Although it's regarded to be the highest output passive pup (mine came in 22.5 DC), it actually has a "low" magnetic field compared to the Norton; meaning you CAN raise the pup higher without losing sustain. If anything, I think the Warpig sounds great when it's closer to the strings. And oh ya, it's a quiet pup as well!
In comparison with the high output DiMarzio's I have in my other axes, it seems like the D-Activator X has the strongest magnetic field despite it's relatively lower resistance (14.5DC).

Reg
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-19-2008, 08:15 PM
 
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Re: high output + low magnetic field pickups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by judasbane View Post
... I got a BKP Ceramic Warpig a month or so ago which went to an S540FM with a DiMarzio Norton in the neck. Although it's regarded to be the highest output passive pup (mine came in 22.5 DC), it actually has a "low" magnetic field compared to the Norton; meaning you CAN raise the pup higher without losing sustain. If anything, I think the Warpig sounds great when it's closer to the strings. And oh ya, it's a quiet pup as well!
In comparison with the high output DiMarzio's I have in my other axes, it seems like the D-Activator X has the strongest magnetic field despite it's relatively lower resistance (14.5DC).

Reg
judasbane the DC not necessaryly have a relationship with the output of the pickup, for example the yjm and HS-3 have the highest DC of the Dimarzio's HC Singlecoils and are between the ones with lower output.

But I know what you mean with BKP having less pull than other pickups, I have a Miracle man.

Last edited by _FR0D0; 12-19-2008 at 08:24 PM.
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