Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :( - Jemsite
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

I'm looking for a different set of Dimarzio's for my RG550EX Basswood with maple/bubinga neck. Played through a hughes and kettner triamp mkII.

I'm pretty dissapointed with my Crunchlab and liquifire set. I bought into the hype and didn't realize early enought that it sounds terrible.

Crunchlab
It has way too much mids, too much thickness with the highs and low ends curbed. Requires a monstrous amount of amp fiddling to get a good thrash sound.

The Liquifire sounds like my Tube amp is played through a sock. The soaring leads I acheived with the my stock pickups which required little EQ'ing is difficult to acheive without endless tweaking to bring down the mids.

In the same vein - I had paf 7's removed from my 7 string jcustom as I felt it was too muddy and didn't have the clarity I was after.

So could someone help recommend me a dimarzio pickup set - preferably H-S-H set.

I play alot of leads and like chord clarity when I arpeggiate chords

I'm into music like satch, guthrie and vai, dream theater, scar symmetry, opeth, katatonia, persephone, pain of salvation, textures etc. I don't play with distortion all the time and try to mix it up with a lot of acoustic like clean work.

In terms of tone - I don't dig Satch's paf sounding tone in his earlier records - but it really picked up post satchafunkalis (too bad cause his music was better before that album). I think michael Romeo's tone has cleaned up alot but earlier it sounded like he played with the tone knob down in his earlier albums.

Recently it hit me that a high output pickup isn't for me - as I have high gain amp + OD808 to boost, no need to distort from my pickup.


I guess that Would knock out the evo/breed combination?

Could anyone help?

Last edited by Trickae; 02-27-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 07:06 PM
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

I really like the CrunchLab Liquifire combo so you may want to choose to ignore me cause our ears are definitely not in sych. Maybe try and AT-1(Andy Timmons) or maybe a Steve's Special and then maybe an Air Norton in the the neck or a PAF Joe.Why dont you just put the stock pickups back in and continue with your soaring leads???
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

Hey Corpraider,

Any input is good enough for me. Now don't get me wrong I didn't immediatly hate the CL/LF set but after months of playing with it I soon realized what it was that I was after in a pup and sadly, the CL/LF set didn't do that for me. I'd rather dial in mids through my amp than the pickup itself.

It is warm but it appears to me that CL/LF is more of a paf meets dsonic + airnorton

I'm currently putting together a frequency spectrum spreadsheet to narrow down what I'm after. So far from what I've found EQ'ing various pickups it seems like the EVO set would work nicely. It's not as high output as the deactivators and slightly shy of the CL/LF set.

I have deactivators coming in for my S7420 in mahagony so I'll test to see how that frequency spread is.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 08:45 PM
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

I'm surprised you didn't like the PAF7's if you don't care much for high gain pickups. Those are some of my favorites in the vein of being very nice and clear, with a good bit of articulation.

I really like the TZ, FS-1, AN combo for a six string H-S-H guitar.

Also, the Dimarzio Mo Joe is actually a pretty rockin' pickup. It pairs up well with the PAF Joe.

Evo2 is a pretty decent bridge pickup. You can't go wrong with a Steve's Special or Super Distortion as well.

I just realized I gave you a plethora of the most common Dimarzio pickups out there. In a basswood 550, I would consider a Tone Zone, FS-1, Air Norton combo for starters. Or if you're not to partial to brands, try a Norton bridge, FS-1 single, and Duncan Distortion neck. You will love the Distortion for lead stuff.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

Thanks Jax,

regarding the paf7's I didn't like them in my mahagony jcustom as the lower bass end register sounded like mud. It was clear but flat sounding. Even if it was for a 25.5" scale length for a 7 string, the heavier gauges didn't make a difference. I now play with an BKP aftermath's and I like them better. I wouldn't say its the be all end all of pups but I find them slightly better than some dimarzio's i've tried.

I don't know - i'm really picky with tone, I'm pretty annoying when shopping for tube amps as well.

anyways...


I'm really digging the evo combo based on the frequency breakdown online. The bridge appears to have too much mids so I may want to pair with a MoJoe which appears to have a more even spread. Still I'd have to hear them and try them out before locking in the pups.

Btw would a single coil tone zone go well with a pair of evo's or evo/moJoe?

Last edited by Trickae; 02-27-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

Looks like the Mojoe would be worth trying out

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimarzio
The last few years have seen Joe develop a new signature tube amp and start using heavier-gauge strings more often. Both developments emphasized the importance of the Mo’ Joe™ having a high degree of string separation without sounding sterile or processed. We got this by slightly increasing the distance between the center frequencies that the coils are tuned to, without increasing DC resistance. The result is a pickup that’s both hotter and more articulate. Mo’ Joe is used by permission of Mojo Musical Supply, with whom DiMarzio, Inc. is not affiliated.
Evo in the neck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimarzio
The neck pickup is fat, punchy and loud. The bridge pickup is tight, aggressive and louder. Both pickups have our patented dual-resonance configuration to reproduce more harmonic overtones than conventional humbuckers. Evolutionģ pickups are not polite-sounding, and they’re not for the inexperienced, but – but they have so much presence and definition that they’re great recording pickups, too; they slice right through even the densest mix.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 11:08 PM
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

I would say spectrum spreadsheets and reading about pickups eq's and sound samples are all well and good but till you hear the pickups installed in your guitar through your rig and it pushes some air you really dont know. Good luck in your quest for the sound you are looking for.

P.S. Try calling Dimarzio they are extremely helpful and will go way out their way to help you if you can accurately descibe what it is you want. They will go way above and beyond to try to help you.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2012, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

thanks man - will contact them now.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 05:47 AM
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

I own a few Dimarzios-
FRED
PAF Pro
Tone Zone
Air Zone
EVO
EVO2
VO Neck
Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues 2
Fast Track 1
Blaze
Blaze Custom
Blaze Neck
Blaze Single
EVO7

I can tell from your posts, you will like pickups with output between 300 - 375.
The higher the output, the less warmth you get. The 375 and under range still have warmth.
For a bridge pickup, don't get one with the treble, mids or bass below 5.
You won't like the Steve's Special, it's too V sounding, all highs and lows, no warmth.
The EVO1, has too much output and becomes a little brighter than your going to want.
Here are some bridge pickups you will like. I'll list them in order from lowest output / thinnest sounding to higher output / fuller / thicker sounding.

PAF Joe 272

PAF Pro 300
FRED 305

Mo Joe 320

AT-1 320
Air Zone 323

EVO2 375

Tone Zone 375

The PAF Pro and the FRED are almost the same pickup. I don't think most people could tell them apart just by listening. The FRED has just a touch more mids and a little better pinch harmonic response.

The AT-1 and the Air Zone are very similar too. They still have good dynamic response but at the same time still staying warm and being able to stomp if you want too.

The EVO2 and the Tone Zone don't sound alike even though they have the same output.
The EVO2 is the EVO1 with a little better dynamic control, less output making it less touchy, it also has the warmth the EVO1 is lacking. It is still a balls out pickup.
The Tone Zone is the best combo of warmth while still maintaining a huge wall of bottom end that thuds really well through a 4x12 cab. The pinch harmonics are thunderous.

There are only two neck pickups you are going to like, PAF Pro and the EVO Neck.
The PAF Pro can work with any bridge pickup out there. It has that warm chippy clicky sound a lot of guys are looking for, parallel wiring increases this attribute. It's like a strat sort of neck pickup but fuller with more output while removing the glassy quality that strats have.
The EVO Neck, sounds like a humming lead pickup in a way. It's like a bridge pickup with a little bit of the highs pulled back, you can play nice leads on it like a bridge pickup. It is not a chippy clicky like the PAF Pro. Two totally different tones, I like them both.

Seven strings-
Just get Blaze bridge and neck, you won't like any of the other ones out there based on what you've said. Maybe the EVO7, it sounds just like the EVO2.

Let me know if you need more help.
Sebastian
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 06:05 AM
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

Maybe it's the amp or gain/EQ dialed in or did clean tones also sound bad? Why did you change the stock pickups if they sounded good?

People can recommend pickups all day long but there's no guarantee whether it will sound good with your setup.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian View Post
The EVO2 and the Tone Zone don't sound alike even though they have the same output.
The EVO2 is the EVO1 with a little better dynamic control, less output making it less touchy, it also has the warmth the EVO1 is lacking. It is still a balls out pickup.
The Tone Zone is the best combo of warmth while still maintaining a huge wall of bottom end that thuds really well through a 4x12 cab. The pinch harmonics are thunderous.

There are only two neck pickups you are going to like, PAF Pro and the EVO Neck.
The PAF Pro can work with any bridge pickup out there. It has that warm chippy clicky sound a lot of guys are looking for, parallel wiring increases this attribute. It's like a strat sort of neck pickup but fuller with more output while removing the glassy quality that strats have.
The EVO Neck, sounds like a humming lead pickup in a way. It's like a bridge pickup with a little bit of the highs pulled back, you can play nice leads on it like a bridge pickup. It is not a chippy clicky like the PAF Pro. Two totally different tones, I like them both.


Let me know if you need more help.
Sebastian
Thanks for that - that sounds awesome. How would you compare the Mo Joe in that mix? I know it has an even spectrum however it sounded quite nice on youtube videos played clean.

How would the evo2 and paf-pro sound? It appears that the evo2 is a quieter version of the evo with warmth and dynamics. That sounds like what I want. BUt I've heard equally bad reviews for the evo 2 vs the evo.... so it must be subjective.

Also per from scar symmetry swears by the paf-pro. I may have to give these all a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanrio View Post
Maybe it's the amp or gain/EQ dialed in or did clean tones also sound bad? Why did you change the stock pickups if they sounded good?

People can recommend pickups all day long but there's no guarantee whether it will sound good with your setup.
Well I like the deactivators and bear knuckles and in band settings and live settings it was fine. But the crunch lab sounded way to fat - as if the mids spoilt the high and low ends I was after.

Last edited by Trickae; 03-01-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 08:36 AM
 
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Smile Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanrio View Post
Maybe it's the amp or gain/EQ dialed in or did clean tones also sound bad? Why did you change the stock pickups if they sounded good?

People can recommend pickups all day long but there's no guarantee whether it will sound good with your setup.
I know the CL/LF are not for very many people, myself included.
I have a feeling his rig may be a problem beyond the CL/LF picups.
What are your Bass / Mid /Treb settings on all of your EQs?
What cab are you using?
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 09:52 AM
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian View Post
I know the CL/LF are not for very many people, myself included.
I have a feeling his rig may be a problem beyond the CL/LF picups.
What are your Bass / Mid /Treb settings on all of your EQs?
What cab are you using?
You ever been to sevenstring.org? Every person there with 500 posts or more has a guitar with the CL/LF combo .

@OP: It sounds like you might need Bareknuckles. Aftermaths are pretty good for thrash. They lack a bit in mids which seems to be your main concern.

And this might all be related to your cab. Because if it's a cab with V30's in it (which are very common speakers), then you can expect there to be a TON of mids. That's what those speakers were designed to have.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 03:08 PM
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

I don't understand why you talk about trash metal, and then name bands like Vai Satch and Dream Theater.

I had Seymour Duncan JB and Jazz in my guitar, and I hated them cause they were more for trash metal, and I wanted to play Vai, Satch and DT.

So I bought a CL/LF set and I love it cause it's really good for Vai, Satch and DT.

Funny enough, when I play Megadeth and Metallica, the pickups don't sound right for that music!!

Just my experience anyway.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 03:55 PM
 
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Re: Need adivce CL/LF sounds terrible, Didn't like Paf7's either :(

Sounds like you're trying to reference a lot of different sounds here... I think you're going to need to think outside the box to get close here.. You like thrash, and a lot of this is in the bridge:

EMG 81, Duncan Blackouts Metal / Dave Mustaine Bridge, and Dimarzio Blackouts all have a slightly different take on this theme. (High output yes, but tried and tested). If you're against actives and pickups eq'd that same way, maybe think about a JB, or Alternative 8 - These both spec out to have more top end than most others.

For your middle:
Lace Sensor Golds get great vintage strat tone.. woody, quacky.. great for acoustic type stuff, and full of spank when you need it, Dimarzio Red / True Velvet are nice too. I've used a Cruiser bridge in the middle, and recommend it thoroughly! (250k pots - P90 vibe, 500k - True Single coil vibe). FS1 is great too, more muscular, closer to a PAF sound. A Duncan Little '59 is also a fantastic middle pickup. it's not as thick as its bigger brother, and again, is more like a P90. It gets great split sounds if you choose to use split coil wiring in positions 2 and 4.

For your neck, I would look at The Humbucker from Hell if you just can't get your neck to clean up. PAF Joes are absolutely WONDERFUL pickup there, as stated by others. It's probably the lowest output PAF pickup Dimarzio make, has all the cool fred vibes, and cancels less frequencies to allow lush strat style quack with the force of a 'bucker. Fantastic Split, Fantastic in parallel. One last suggestion is the Duncan Prails pickup. It's got four great configurations. True P90, Single coil Rail, Parallel humbucking across both coils and serial humbucking across both coils. This is in my opinion the most underrated and versatile pickup seymour duncan make.

If you do decide to mix Actives with passives, you'll be okay as long as you use separate volume pots, and match your pickup height.

Good luck, and I hope I've given you some good alternatives.

Last edited by SpikeSocietySucks; 02-28-2012 at 04:00 PM. Reason: spelling
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