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Thread: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side) Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-08-2012 05:51 PM
Ke^in
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Hey I was just saying putting a shim on the headstock side CAN help lower action.

Especially if you have a guitar that has strings too close to the 12-24 frets, and your nut is as low as it would go. I had this problem.

Putting a shim in the neck side solved this problem. Plus it made my trem more flush to the body.
06-08-2012 03:20 PM
MicJustMic
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribbean77 View Post
Thanks a lot MicJustMic for your advice, I straighten the neck a little bit, and raise a hair the bridge, installed brand new daddario 0.9 and its very smooth and buzz free!

thanks for your help!
Glad you got it worked out.
06-08-2012 01:14 PM
caribbean77
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Thanks a lot MicJustMic for your advice, I straighten the neck a little bit, and raise a hair the bridge, installed brand new daddario 0.9 and its very smooth and buzz free!

thanks for your help!
06-08-2012 07:02 AM
MicJustMic
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBGas View Post
Common sense would tell one that if you shim under the neck at the bridge side, then that would effectively raise that part of the neck tilting it backwards. That would mean you would have to raise your bridge up. This would be effective if you bridge is too low on the body of the guitar. At the opposite end of things, if you shim the neck at the headstock side, then that would be angling the neck forward and the bridge would have to be lowered down into the body more. This would be useful if your bridge is up too high on the body and you would like a lower setup.
You're assuming 'common sense' is in great supply.

My favorite quote:

"Common sense is the least common of all the senses. There is nothing common about common sense." - Charles Manson
06-08-2012 06:52 AM
PBGas
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Common sense would tell one that if you shim under the neck at the bridge side, then that would effectively raise that part of the neck tilting it backwards. That would mean you would have to raise your bridge up. This would be effective if you bridge is too low on the body of the guitar. At the opposite end of things, if you shim the neck at the headstock side, then that would be angling the neck forward and the bridge would have to be lowered down into the body more. This would be useful if your bridge is up too high on the body and you would like a lower setup.
06-07-2012 10:13 AM
MicJustMic
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ke^in View Post
I put a headstock side shim in my RG and it lowered the action. Why? IT had too much of a neck angle. To get it at ANY decent low action I would have had to angle the trem in a way that wasn't parallel to the body. It DID raise my action, but lowering the bridge solved that. I was able to lower my action without as much buzzing. And my trem is actually flush with the body now.
This, however, is exactly the opposite of what the OP needs. His bridge is already too low in the body, so he needs a shim on the bridge side of the body, to bring the bridge up out of the body to maintain his desired action.
06-07-2012 09:12 AM
Ke^in
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

I put a headstock side shim in my RG and it lowered the action. Why? IT had too much of a neck angle. To get it at ANY decent low action I would have had to angle the trem in a way that wasn't parallel to the body. It DID raise my action, but lowering the bridge solved that. I was able to lower my action without as much buzzing. And my trem is actually flush with the body now.
06-02-2012 02:50 AM
MicJustMic
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Shimming the neck will alter the angle of the entire neck, not just those frets. So this won't change the relationship between the action at 12 and 24...

You said your bridge is low in the body... just raise the bridge a bit. just over 1mm action is really VERY low... crazy low by most standards.

2mm on the low E string and 1.5mm on the high E at the 14th fret is what Ibanez suggests as 'factory standard' setup.

I keep mine at about 2.5 and 2 low to high, but all guitars are different so it depends, but I never go lower than that.

If you like your action that low, you're going to have to live with some buzz, even with 'perfect' frets it's almost impossible to eliminate buzz in the upper register with the strings that close to the frets, unless you have a really light pick attack, and I mean, just grazing the string with the first couple of molecules of the pick. LOL

If you must have your action that low, straighten the neck to either .1mm relief or try to get it as flat as possible... then raise the bridge so your action is where you want it... this will cause some of the lower frets to buzz, but your upper frets will buzz less since you'll have a bit more clearance in the upper register this way since you'll have to raise the bridge to maintain the action.

I do, however, suggest you try the guitar with slightly higher action. I know it's nice to have the 'buttery' feel, as if you don't even have to put any pressure on the strings, but you'll hear a big difference in your tone if you give the strings room to breath.

And believe it or not, after a short time the guitar won't feel harder to play any more... not only that, but it can actually feel like you have more control since you can feel the strings better than with low action.

I used to like insane (less than 1mm) low action. I injured my left arm when I was a kid and used to have a lot of pain when I played and thought this was a way to relieve that pain... it was more detrimental to my playing than a benefit and I'm glad I was talked into trying a more 'reasonable' action.

Of course, everyone is different. It's my understanding that Joe Satriani likes very low action... and he has NO control problems and good tone... as always YMMV

You can leave your relief right where it is if you do decide to try your action a little higher...
06-02-2012 12:40 AM
caribbean77
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

OK, my neck relief its .30 mm at 9th and 7th fret, guitar fretted at 1 and 24, do you think I have to correct this to lower the action?

Right now with the guitar fretted at 1st fret the action at 12 is 1.09 mm and in 24th fret its the same (low E) and with some buzz in frets 17/19 (all strings), on the high E the action is 1.03mm both at 12 and 24th fret

Thats why Im asking about if my neck need some angle (neck shimming on the headstok side of the pocket) to give the high frets (17 to 24) to have little more action than the action at 12th fret.

Any comments on this will be very appreciated.

thanks a lot.
05-31-2012 04:16 AM
MicJustMic
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicdr View Post
Shim the body side.The best way to learn is to do it and see what effect it has.That is how I learned.I have a 3120 that has the exact problem you are describing.I added a piece of business card in the neck pocket, body side.I could then raise the bridge so it was not bottoming out.Problem solved.I had some buzz on the higher frets.I tightened the truss rod until I had buzz while fretting the first fret.Then I loosened the truss rod until that buzz went away.As a result the guitar is buzz free and the trem has room for pull ups.Assuming your frets are good, this will work.
Best guess; it's a typo that's never been corrected.

Think about the physics of it.

Picture it in your mind what happens if you tilt the neck forward (headstock side) and if you tilt it backward (bridge side).
05-30-2012 11:03 PM
musicdr
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Shim the body side.The best way to learn is to do it and see what effect it has.That is how I learned.I have a 3120 that has the exact problem you are describing.I added a piece of business card in the neck pocket, body side.I could then raise the bridge so it was not bottoming out.Problem solved.I had some buzz on the higher frets.I tightened the truss rod until I had buzz while fretting the first fret.Then I loosened the truss rod until that buzz went away.As a result the guitar is buzz free and the trem has room for pull ups.Assuming your frets are good, this will work.
05-30-2012 10:25 PM
caribbean77
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

thanks guys, but Im a little confuse now, because on this thread I see that all of you agree that shiming the headstock side of the neck pocket will make my bridge go lower and raise my action ... but in the mandatory modifications section (http://www.jemsite.com/articles-menu...ons/#neckangle)
it says this:
" Bridge sits too low into the body when trying to get good action - increase the neck angle by shimming the headstock side of the neck joint. This allows you to raise the bridge and lower the action simultaneously. Reattach the neck and raise the bridge to test "
So what is the correct information???
05-30-2012 07:42 PM
MicJustMic
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Quote:
Originally Posted by just4kinks View Post
You have too much relief: tighten the truss rod a bit and raise the bridge.



A shim on the neck side is the last thing you need, you would end up either bottoming out the bridge or raising the action.
Beat ya to it by a whole four minutes. J/K
05-30-2012 07:32 PM
just4kinks
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribbean77 View Post
thanks for the replys guys, my problem is that I want to lower a little bit the action, but I get fret buzz on the 14-18 frets, so when I look in detail, I see that the same action at fret 12 is almost the same at fret 24 (there is no neck angle).
You have too much relief: tighten the truss rod a bit and raise the bridge.

Quote:
Apart of this, I think the guitar comes with a very deep neck pocket, because the tremolo is resting very deep in the body (its leveled, but it is very deep) maybe I have 1/2 turn on the studs before It reach the bottom..
A shim on the neck side is the last thing you need, you would end up either bottoming out the bridge or raising the action.
05-30-2012 07:28 PM
MicJustMic
Re: How to properly add shims on AANJ neck joint (neck side)

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribbean77 View Post
thanks for the replys guys, my problem is that I want to lower a little bit the action, but I get fret buzz on the 14-18 frets, so when I look in detail, I see that the same action at fret 12 is almost the same at fret 24 (there is no neck angle).
The solution I see here is the one "Takin a ride" did, a small shim of basswood, the problem is I dont know how to cut it in angle! to be able to raise a little the headstock side of the neck pocket.

Apart of this, I think the guitar comes with a very deep neck pocket, because the tremolo is resting very deep in the body (its leveled, but it is very deep) maybe I have 1/2 turn on the studs before It reach the bottom..

thanks!
Shimming the headstock side isn't going to help you get lower action, or eliminate fret-buzz... plus; if you feel the bridge is already too low in the body shimming the headstock side of the pocket is going to cause the bridge to go even lower into the body.

If you're experiencing excessive fret buzz in the upper register it's most likely too much relief on the neck.

Go to Rich's tech site at www.ibanezrules.com for a great tutorial on setting up the action, including adjusting the truss-rod.

If after doing a thorough setup you still feel the bridge is too low in the body, you'll want to shim the bridge side of the pocket. This will angle the neck back a bit, so you'll have to raise the bridge to maintain the same action.

Again, if you shim the headstock side of the pocket it will raise the action, will not solve the upper fret buzz and you'll actually have to lower the bridge even more into the body to achieve the action that you want.
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