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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have noticed on the net auction site we can't mention ;) a LOT of JEM 7V/DBK copies being sold imported from China.

The main problems obviously is the quality is NOT cheap and nasty, they have accurately mimicked the AANJ, the monkey grip, and in the case of a model called the Z7700 the ACTUAL tree of life inlay from the 7VWH

So why the concern? Well here in the UK people are greedily snapping up loads of these copies because:

1: they look like the original (one model currently on even has white Evolution copies WITH GOLD POLE PIECES one even has a pearloid scratchplate)
2: they are a fraction of the cost
3: they are made from the same type (but not grade) of wood
4: only a true JEM fanatic will tell the difference
5: they are a much better guitar then an RG550 of Ibanez's own budget 333

So is this one of the reasons Ibanez seems to be stopping R&D on the JEM and focusing on the J-Custom range?

Should they drop the crappy 555/333 and release some REALLY fancy JEM's to kill to competition?

They quality of these copies is really rather good they even have a UV version with a neck that is only 2mm thicker!
 

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guitar arent the only thing there copying.....also making copys of tamiya r/c cars...

i will say i bought a left handed sx strat style guitar made in china...
it actually is really nice....and plays better than any mexican strat ive owned.... and only cost 99 dollars...

if anyone here has seen these guitars on e b a y..there worth the money forsure.........

and mine came with a different headstock than shown in the auction.......its more like fenders big strat headstock

cheapest parts on it......the tuners and tremolo
 

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GuitarAkuma said:
1: they look like the original (one model currently on even has white Evolution copies WITH GOLD POLE PIECES one even has a pearloid scratchplate)
2: they are a fraction of the cost
3: they are made from the same type (but not grade) of wood
4: only a true JEM fanatic will tell the difference
5: they are a much better guitar then an RG550 of Ibanez's own budget 333
Have you played one before?

If it's as good as you've mentioned it, I think you should stick to your judgements and start buying them in that case.

I was at a local store today which boasted cheap guitars from countries like Taiwan and Korea. I tried a "Carvin Holdsworth" fatboy copy from korea. Lookswise I thought it was really nice, binding, nice green highly figured maple top, gold hardware. I played it a little, until the owner of the damn joint told me his shop was not a jam studio (WTF!).

The fact of the matter is this, a copy guitar will NEVER sound as good as a real one. Period.

If you're an experienced player you'll know exactly what I mean, the way the guitar feels, from every single detail like the finishing of the frets to the sound, you'll know the difference for sure.

For those who choose to pick up copy jems, I can only say it sucks to be you.

And yes ONLY a true JEM fanatic can tell the difference, and that is why we all play Real Jems.

But I believe any guitar player with a relevant amount of experience can tell a quality instrument when he picks one up.

I have never supported cheap copies and I never will. It just screws up the whole market. The question of drawing a balance and a justification between purchasing an expensive original over a cheapo has long plagued me. I have been trying to come to terms with the whole motivation behind the decision that people make over buying cheap copies.

At the end of the day it's like a fake rolex.

All you have on your wrist is a wannabe, it'll never be a real rolex, and when you wash your hands it's gonna go dead. Either that or you're gonna have to change the battery after 2 months.

By the way, after rolex got into the whole quartz movement thing in the 80s they have never gone back, and since then no more batteries ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thats very true, but the chance of getting a JEM copy for less than a quarter of the price of the original is almost too tempting..

I bought a strat copy of net auction place for a laughable £140 it has a properly scalloped neck even follows the camber perfectly, no sharp fret ends or raised frets. Actions was perfect and the pickups are very meaty, I lent it to a friend who swore blind it was a Fender USA Delxue as the neck is identical, and the only noticable cheapnessis the totaly lack of electronic shielding and cheap trem and tuners.

The big problem is, (as Richwood with their Les Paul with the TOL inlay) prove Chinese companys do not have to follow the strict forestry laws everyone else does so there is a glut of rare wood guitars for cheap cash. If you change the pickups and re-wire them the general public can't tell the difference in sound, but us JEM owners can!
 

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Chris From Singapore. said:
Have you played one before?

If it's as good as you've mentioned it, I think you should stick to your judgements and start buying them in that case.

I was at a local store today which boasted cheap guitars from countries like Taiwan and Korea. I tried a "Carvin Holdsworth" fatboy copy from korea. Lookswise I thought it was really nice, binding, nice green highly figured maple top, gold hardware. I played it a little, until the owner of the damn joint told me his shop was not a jam studio (WTF!).

The fact of the matter is this, a copy guitar will NEVER sound as good as a real one. Period.

If you're an experienced player you'll know exactly what I mean, the way the guitar feels, from every single detail like the finishing of the frets to the sound, you'll know the difference for sure.

For those who choose to pick up copy jems, I can only say it sucks to be you.

And yes ONLY a true JEM fanatic can tell the difference, and that is why we all play Real Jems.

But I believe any guitar player with a relevant amount of experience can tell a quality instrument when he picks one up.

I have never supported cheap copies and I never will. It just screws up the whole market. The question of drawing a balance and a justification between purchasing an expensive original over a cheapo has long plagued me. I have been trying to come to terms with the whole motivation behind the decision that people make over buying cheap copies.

At the end of the day it's like a fake rolex.

All you have on your wrist is a wannabe, it'll never be a real rolex, and when you wash your hands it's gonna go dead. Either that or you're gonna have to change the battery after 2 months.

By the way, after rolex got into the whole quartz movement thing in the 80s they have never gone back, and since then no more batteries ;)
Now that's a guy with his head straight on his shoulders I couldn't agree more with you, these cheapo copies will only bring a bad rep to JEMS they should sue the company that's making these horrific look alikes close it down and burn those infamous copies!!!!!
 

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I'll be honest and say i'd rather have an RG550 then most guitars, even exspensive ones.

If i bought a £2000 guitar, i wouldn't play it - plain and simple. I buy guitars to take out gigging and such, and i'd worry too much about it being stolen or scratched by my clothes.

Also, i'd prefer an RG550 to a JEM copy just because the JEM copy is a copy of a copy ;)
 

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GuitarAkuma said:
I have noticed on the net auction site we can't mention ;) a LOT of JEM 7V/DBK copies being sold imported from China.

The main problems obviously is the quality is NOT cheap and nasty, they have accurately mimicked the AANJ, the monkey grip, and in the case of a model called the Z7700 the ACTUAL tree of life inlay from the 7VWH
Don't buy illegally produced cheap knockoffs that come out of China! Many Chinese factory workers don't go home to their families at the end of the day; they often live in dormitories attached to the factories. They also often work 12 hour days 6 or 7 days a week for as little as 30 cents an hour.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?fe...-1-20051103-05214400-bc-china-workerdeath.xml
 

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What about the fact that Ibanez built a lot of their rep from building cheap copies years ago. Are you saying that there is no way a company that builds copies can't built something better then what they copy everynow and then. I think a lot of people would agree that Gibson's quality on most of their new instruments can easily be passed up for a cheaper price by some exceptional companies building their own les pauls for much less. Not to mention their are many that would say the old Ibanez les paul copies from the 70's are just as good if not better in some cases then the gibsons they are made after.

Now i'm not saying anything about the Jem copies as I have little experience with them but I'm saying that, yeah most copies aren't as good as the original, but that doesn't mean that somebody won't get it right everynow and then.
 

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Well, there's a difference between Gibson, Ibanez, and China. Two are companies trying to make their way and one is a communist country flooding the world with illegally knocked off crap. China competes on price and price alone with the unfair advantage of being beyond lawsuits and beyond unions, in the hopes of getting their footprint into every business on earth. When they start selling cars in a few years the world will change forever.

Anyway... no one who's played a 70's Ibanez Les Paul copy would ever mistake one for a Gibson. No one. That isn't the case with the Ibanez hollow bodies, but that's because Tamura studied with John D'Angelico and his skill rubbed off on the hollow body staff (like Sugihara and Mirabuyashi).
 

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jim777 said:
Well, there's a difference between Gibson, Ibanez, and China. Two are companies trying to make their way and one is a communist country flooding the world with illegally knocked off crap. China competes on price and price alone with the unfair advantage of being beyond lawsuits and beyond unions, in the hopes of getting their footprint into every business on earth. When they start selling cars in a few years the world will change forever.

Anyway... no one who's played a 70's Ibanez Les Paul copy would ever mistake one for a Gibson. No one. That isn't the case with the Ibanez hollow bodies, but that's because Tamura studied with John D'Angelico and his skill rubbed off on the hollow body staff (like Sugihara and Mirabuyashi).
I'll agree with the terrible way china runs things and I won't dispute it. I was more just referring to more of the company trying to make their way that happens to produce a product better then the copy from time to time.

On another note I love learning all about things like Tamura studying with D'Angelico. I'm all tid bits of history in guitar making like that. On that note is the history of Ibanez book good?
 

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jim777 said:
Well, there's a difference between Gibson, Ibanez, and China. Two are companies trying to make their way and one is a communist country flooding the world with illegally knocked off crap. China competes on price and price alone with the unfair advantage of being beyond lawsuits and beyond unions, in the hopes of getting their footprint into every business on earth. When they start selling cars in a few years the world will change forever.

Anyway... no one who's played a 70's Ibanez Les Paul copy would ever mistake one for a Gibson. No one. That isn't the case with the Ibanez hollow bodies, but that's because Tamura studied with John D'Angelico and his skill rubbed off on the hollow body staff (like Sugihara and Mirabuyashi).
Couldn't agree more with you on the subject unfortunately there are always people that will preffer to buy an inferior chinese knockoff than paying regular price for something made right I don't want to dis the chinese but everything they make is really low quality guitars,tools, electronics you name it and unfortunately the US is flooded with all kinds of inferior quality chinese products and consumers don't realize that they are contributing to the growth of this illegal and cheap quality market but I don't see our country preventing our companies from going to China and opening more sweat shops
and that's the bitter reality of things.
 

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I don't know! I made the mistake of only buying one copy of the book and I gave that to my brother. Rich may know if the book is still available. But the mid 70's hollow bodies and semihollows from Ibanez are great guitars. The high end spruce topped guitars are fantastic instruments. I had two Gibson 175's before finding a Sugihara made FA-100, and it owns the Gibsons.
 

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Chris From Singapore. said:
Have you played one before?

If it's as good as you've mentioned it, I think you should stick to your judgements and start buying them in that case.

I was at a local store today which boasted cheap guitars from countries like Taiwan and Korea. I tried a "Carvin Holdsworth" fatboy copy from korea. Lookswise I thought it was really nice, binding, nice green highly figured maple top, gold hardware. I played it a little, until the owner of the damn joint told me his shop was not a jam studio (WTF!).

The fact of the matter is this, a copy guitar will NEVER sound as good as a real one. Period.

If you're an experienced player you'll know exactly what I mean, the way the guitar feels, from every single detail like the finishing of the frets to the sound, you'll know the difference for sure.

For those who choose to pick up copy jems, I can only say it sucks to be you.

And yes ONLY a true JEM fanatic can tell the difference, and that is why we all play Real Jems.

But I believe any guitar player with a relevant amount of experience can tell a quality instrument when he picks one up.

I have never supported cheap copies and I never will. It just screws up the whole market. The question of drawing a balance and a justification between purchasing an expensive original over a cheapo has long plagued me. I have been trying to come to terms with the whole motivation behind the decision that people make over buying cheap copies.

At the end of the day it's like a fake rolex.

All you have on your wrist is a wannabe, it'll never be a real rolex, and when you wash your hands it's gonna go dead. Either that or you're gonna have to change the battery after 2 months.

By the way, after rolex got into the whole quartz movement thing in the 80s they have never gone back, and since then no more batteries ;)
the big flaw in your arguement tho- people don't expect a jem when they buy one. they expect a guitar.

when we buy any type of copy of style, we know it's not the same, it simply took certain features but if it's fairly ok quality- it just comes down to being another guitar. especially great for modders as usually the neck and body could be quite sweet if the quality is going up.

you'd be an idiot to expect a jem, you'd expect another guitar which varies in ways, has cheap hardware and hopefully a nicely copied neck etc BUT has copied the look of the jem.

more quality guitars- more choice- GREAT! i'd have to say if the necks are good and the bodies are ok, it's already BETTER VALUE than a jem comparatively.
what would happen if the chinese quality began surpassing the quality of the object copied? food for thought...
they don't need to always be so inferior. in fact as seen here some are going up in quality enough to stand on their own as decent instruments rather than total crap. esp. with new pups etc

that's the guitars on their own but.....
the only thing holding me back is the labour used.
i do agree with jim777, labour there is shocking.

we all know the horrible things going on there and of a lot of unfairness. but the other side of that (doesn't justify anything, just something to be aware of) is that with so many markets infiltrated, there is a LOT of worker business going on. now it'll take a big change to do anything about it because even if one market totally shuts down due to lack of demand, there are thousands more and new ones starting all the time as markets and products change

one possible backwards kinda theory if there's no big change..(note i'm not condoning anything or giving my opinion on this), just giving more info and ppl can make their own judgements) is that, maybe the way out- is to get bigger?
if more business' open, the working market there gets more competition, the wages have to start to raise at some point as the workers gain choice of workplace, conditions and wages then get a steady increase and things get on their way to a better state, most countries did start out with cheap labour and crap workplace conditions at one point..
not saying that'll work or to trust in that and buy, just food for thought.

it's one thing to say "i refuse cos things are unfair there", it's another thing to say "well how can change be put into effect?"

i'm an international eng teacher and can't wait to go there sometime after Japan :)
 

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Chud said:
I'll be honest and say i'd rather have an RG550 then most guitars, even exspensive ones.

If i bought a £2000 guitar, i wouldn't play it - plain and simple. I buy guitars to take out gigging and such, and i'd worry too much about it being stolen or scratched by my clothes.

Also, i'd prefer an RG550 to a JEM copy just because the JEM copy is a copy of a copy ;)
hi chud,
i totally agree with you.
i`m a lefty ,and once i bought a lefty gibson les paul.
gheeze i was scared to damage the guitar by scratches or things like that.
i finally sold the guitar and now i`m more than happy with my ragged and alway`s good sounding rg550 also my jem555.
patricia
 
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