Ibanez JEM Forum banner

21 - 33 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,001 Posts
floyds are more used for tonal stability in mad bends and stuff like that, and bending high bars over while doing dynamics, it allots the tension of the string to remain relatively the same, as the springs in teh back compensate and stretch so the string is "relatively" in tune i use that word loosely

but the dynamics of a floyd are all personal, and arent any possitive factors at all!

if you really are into being savage as **** its all about the kahler units
the new kahlers are beyond functional, and instead of operating as a fulcrum based trem like all ibanez and floyd types...it has a rolling cam that never leaves the string sections harmoinc pitch, it just moves the string retainer block

and they are more stable, but are ten times harder to setup...they are alot more verstile and when it comes to tone, MUCH MORE TONE WORTHY!!!!!

you can chose any paterial for either of the cams, and rollers, and theres no stupid sustain block , and no lock block for the bridge

and for the record, you can use a kahler trem unit, WITHOUT THE NUT LOCKED, or even with a corian nut, and it doesnt need to be double locking mech to stya in tune for dive bombs or anything like that

you can actually use it or not

i have a 3300 fine tuner fixed bridge and the tone is to die for

i had soo many floyds and dont get me wrong are great and all, but are tonaly retarded and i dunno

anyways
if you are tottaly interested go with a kahler steel on steel cam set with stainless steel rollers

they have ten times more tone, and are ten times more stable than a floyd

but some people just love the floyds, i dont, they dont have enough tone for me, but i have all high gain pickups now with all migh pot values so the slightest in tone variations i can tell
Hmmm... :?

While I can't say that I agree with you - and I've in fact more often found my Kahlers to be lacking "punch" (same thing as tone? I dunno), especially when played acoustically - I love the term "tonally retarded" and will now add it to my daily repertoire. :)

Now, to add something of "value" to the conversation. I have to agree with everyone that said Floyds are actually pretty easy to set up. I hate trying to poke the damn ball end out the backside of a vintage trem, but that's just me... As for Floyds and Kahlers, I like them both, but to me they are different animals. The feel and really the operation is completely different for both, but I like them both. Floyd type guitars are really just more readily available and tend to be cheaper. Kind of like PCs vs. Macs if you want a stupid analogy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,982 Posts
most of my guitars are floyd equipped and i can change strings on a floyd almost as fast as a strat trem, the thiing that sucks about restringing the strat is the backplate and block. tuning it to do trem tricks is just as big of a PITA as retuning a floyd 3-4 times. both are comparable in taking to a setup, but a floyd is less tempermental after completely setup. as far as tone goes, i feel that floyd rose guitars always had more tone and were more well defined and focused than a strat styled trem.
as far as kahler goes, had one on an old model 4 and it was horrible. the tone was weak and it felt like a bigsby that could divebomb. what would suck is when you were agressive with the divebombs, the strings would pop out of the ball end keepers by the fine tuners. the floyds are more sensitive and a very responsive to the bar, feeling more like a strat bar with more range. vintage trems are a bit more "sticky" as they have to deal with 6 screws to pivot across. 2 point trems are better for more agressive bar work. now as far as the kahlers go, you have to dump them farther and faster to get the same effect as that of a floyd, lotsa wasted movement, IMO. like i said before...a dive bombing bigsby. with the old locking systems that they had behind the nut...those were TERRIBLE!!! when they started using floyd nuts, it made them better, but still felt like a bigsby. for tone, they sounded liked they lacked alot of low end definition with a guitar that was similarly equipped(had emg 81's). had the mid range sizzle, but no tight low end. one good thing about the kahler flyer trem, is that the string tesion is less than that of a floyd. almost like a stop tail but with more give on bends due to it being a spring loaded trem. i could see it being a good hardtail alternative like marty friedman, dave mustaine, and kerry king use it for. aside from that. its all about the floyds!!!

just to add, the only other trem that i felt could hang with a floyd was the wilkinson 2 point trem. it fluttered just like a floyd and came back like one from a deep dive. granted it was on a brian moore mc/1 with graphite nut and sperzels, so it was going to play like sex. all things considered...

rich
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,459 Posts
My OFR was set up about 17 years ago. I've never had a problem with it. I tried changing string gauges a few times. But my trem LOVES 9's, so I stick with them. IMO, the OFR set the benchmark by which all other trems are measured. I know some guys disagree. But they probably haven't owned one of the older original Floyed's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,982 Posts
My OFR was set up about 17 years ago. I've never had a problem with it. I tried changing string gauges a few times. But my trem LOVES 9's, so I stick with them. IMO, the OFR set the benchmark by which all other trems are measured. I know some guys disagree. But they probably haven't owned one of the older original Floyed's.
you mean the old ones w/o the fine tuners? hehe. or do you mean the ones with the screw in bar vs. the collared bar? i always make my old floyds have the collared bars. an extra $20, but well worth it.

rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,076 Posts
I have to agree with everyone that said Floyds are actually pretty easy to set up. I hate trying to poke the damn ball end out the backside of a vintage trem, but that's just me... As for Floyds and Kahlers, I like them both, but to me they are different animals. The feel and really the operation is completely different for both, but I like them both. Floyd type guitars are really just more readily available and tend to be cheaper. Kind of like PCs vs. Macs if you want a stupid analogy.
I agree. I have, and HAVE HAD both Kahler'd and Floyd'd guitars, and I like them each, for their own respects. The Floyds are more sensitive, in use, in that it takes less bar movement to achieve the same pitch change, as it would normally take on a Kahler. And since Kahlers (at least all the classic ones I'VE used and owned) have the locking nut BEHIND the actual nut, they ARe more prone to tuning issues, due to slack storage between the two, as well as at the bridge, since it is a single-locking system, whereas the Floyds lock right at both ends, minimizing any slack storage issues.
The floyds I've owned seem to have a brighter tone to them than the Kahlers, although all Kahlers I've owned had the brass rollers, so I don't know how much of an affect the steel rollers would have.
Kahlers really aren't that hard to tend to, either. My original 86 Charvel Model 4's Kahler NEVER saw any maintenance (mainly because I didn't know any better, back then), and yet it held tune quite well, even when I almost took all of the bend out of the bar, during a recording session. There's much more setup options available, stock, in a Kahler, than in a Floyd. KAhlers allow you to set individual string height, whereas it takes shims and trial and error, with Floyds.
Last, but certainly not least, I dig Kahlers simply because not everyone uses them. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,847 Posts
To be honest. Once you learn to set up a floyd it's not a hassle for most users. But for me it was the finiky way in which you had to approach your guitar setup everytime you changed tunings or put new strings on. I understand that over time it'll get better but based on what a FR gave me it wasn't worth it.

Some guitarist can use a floyd musically and it seems like it is essential for them. But 99% of the time even for the pros it's just gimmicky to me. Dive Bombs and squeels aren't used for anything but sound effects. Personally i don't need the disadvantages of a floyd just so I can make noises like a kid playing air guitar. Personally I would rather be able to do various tunings and have a more stable tuning than any trem system could give.

My opinion yes but no matter how you put it a hardtail is more stable. And you can change your tuning easily.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,459 Posts
you mean the old ones w/o the fine tuners? hehe. or do you mean the ones with the screw in bar vs. the collared bar? i always make my old floyds have the collared bars. an extra $20, but well worth it.

rich
It has the tuners. so it's not the first generation floyd. Like Brad Gillis uses from Night Ranger. But it's the collared bar and I don't think I've removed it since I put it on.

Mine:


Brad Gilli's guitar.


Brad, one of my favorite guitarist.


Here's an accidental rip of a Night Ranger riff back in 91. I knew it sounded fimilar when i was playing it, but I didn't place what it was until after we came out of the studio. It's a nice riff anyway.
Night Ranger
The band I played in. hehe
http://christianbattleofthebands.com/05 Make Up Your Mind.mp3
I even put the Floyd to work! You can tell Brad Gillis was a huge influence on my playing back then. Check the solo about 2/3 into the song and compare to Brad Gillis's style. It's funny now that I listen to it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
I had several Charvel's in the 80's with Kahlers, and at the time they had the stiff spring/big bar option that I never tried, but still I love the OFR and Edge over any other.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
848 Posts
Hmmm... :?

While I can't say that I agree with you - and I've in fact more often found my Kahlers to be lacking "punch" (same thing as tone? I dunno), especially when played acoustically - I love the term "tonally retarded" and will now add it to my daily repertoire. :)

Now, to add something of "value" to the conversation. I have to agree with everyone that said Floyds are actually pretty easy to set up. I hate trying to poke the damn ball end out the backside of a vintage trem, but that's just me... As for Floyds and Kahlers, I like them both, but to me they are different animals. The feel and really the operation is completely different for both, but I like them both. Floyd type guitars are really just more readily available and tend to be cheaper. Kind of like PCs vs. Macs if you want a stupid analogy.
yes i agree once setup properly it is easy to replace strings and such

and refering to ur kahler, they always used to come stock brass on brass cams
and brass rollers

the now offer anything from aluminum to steel to brass

i like the steel on steel new trems, and ss saddles

i have a 3310 its a fine tuner fixed kahler with ss saddles, and the tone is to die for and the punch is remarkable
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts
I hate any kind of trem bridge system, and stick to guitars with fixed bridges. That, however, is purely a preference of mine and how I prefer my guitars, and has nothing to do with the work required to setup and maintain any kind of tremolo bridge.

If I was going to use any kind of tremolo bridge, it would be a floyd. They're easy to setup, and you can abuse the thing more than any other tremolo system that's readily available on the market, and it'll still be in tune. Can't say that about Fender's stuff, or the Wilkinsons, or the PRS trems, or the MM Petruccis, or any guitar with a roller nut and locking tuners. Floyds work better. Sorry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,001 Posts
...Personally i don't need the disadvantages of a floyd just so I can make noises like a kid playing air guitar...
Argghhh... why is it being a "kid" if I want to use a Floyd for dive bombs and other effects? That's just... :mad:

Anyway, I have a lot of different Floyd guitars, and they are setup in a few different ways - recessed and floating, not recessed and floating, and not recessed not floating (with or without D-tuna), a la Van Halen. I find the last one, while limiting my pull back, to be my favorite as of late. Not because the string change is usually easier (which, I guess it could be, but not the way I change my strings), but I like the bridge to rest against the body for a little more sustain.

And, quite frankly, when it's set up like that, I think it's every bit as "stable" as as my guitars with fixed or hardtail bridges, if not moreso since the locking nut helps in case ther is incidental contact with the tuners.
 
21 - 33 of 33 Posts
Top