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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I found this on eBay new for $850 from a guitar store. They did a setup on it, surprisingly, it was good. The trem angle is where is supposed to be. Intonated right. Action is good.

This guitar is lighter weight than my RG550 Genesis. It plays better for some reason, it must be cause is new.

The fretboard doesn't have a smell. It seems they received complaints about this and maybe changed their varnish. My used RG550 had a varnish smell that took months to go away. I tried a new one back then and it had the same smell but stronger.

I could probably sell this guitar for $1200+ once is discontinued if I wanted to

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Its like night and day when it comes to tone and ease of playing and I have the Dimarzio evolution on the RG550 Genesis and somehow the RG565 with stock Ibanez pickups somehow has a better tone, easier harmonics, it just sounds better and plays better

Not much difference in setup if at all, same angle, similar action, the only difference is this is a new guitar and RG550 used

But even when I bought the RG550 used for first time it didn’t sound and play as good as this guitar. This only reinforces the belief i always had that there was something wrong with the used RG550 I bought

I know that RG550 was sold twice and Im the third owner.
 

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Definitely want an ibanez that looks like this next, or something in this vein of aesthetics.
and a waynes world hat... Shwing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Best part is the guitar is light and fret dots have this 3d look to them.

Thinking of putting dimarzio distortion in bridge but i dont know what on the neck

Just waiting for those 15% discount sales on musicianfriends to get pickups on a discount 🤣
 

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I bought the green one from the same guitar store you got that one from. It was in my watch list on eBay and they sent an offer out to watchers for $919. I thought that was pretty good, thought about it for a day and it was still there so I pulled the trigger. I was a tiny bit disappointed to see them drop the price on the orange one to $850 after I just paid 70 bucks more than that but that's life. It's a great guitar and I agree - very well set up by them.

I also noticed the thing about the pickups. Supposedly this bridge humbucker is the same V8 that is in the other Genesis models. Maybe it's just a setup thing or a placebo effect, but I was so impressed with the RG565 that I bought an RG550DX today (bound neck one). It plays great but the pickups feel like they are lower output and more bland... and physically they look to be around the same distance from the strings so I'm not sure why. No big deal, they still sound great I'm just surprised someone else had the same observations.
 

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I've known Rob forever, and I know it would have been adjusted well, but that's it. Every 565 nut is .1mm too high both sides, none of the arm holders have been tight, at least none of the holder springs have been binding and oddly the grip is weak on the bar. The intonation wasn't set, the studs weren't lubed, I doubt regular maintenance was done, tuners loose, neck screws, nut screws, and then radiusing the bridge. And every one I sold paid for the fret end finishing, obviously smarter clients. But he must have ordered deep to be cutting deals like that, he'll blow stuff out to make room for the next batch he buys deep in. And at $850 he didn't make beans on it. 8O
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I bought the green one from the same guitar store you got that one from. It was in my watch list on eBay and they sent an offer out to watchers for $919. I thought that was pretty good, thought about it for a day and it was still there so I pulled the trigger. I was a tiny bit disappointed to see them drop the price on the orange one to $850 after I just paid 70 bucks more than that but that's life. It's a great guitar and I agree - very well set up by them.

I also noticed the thing about the pickups. Supposedly this bridge humbucker is the same V8 that is in the other Genesis models. Maybe it's just a setup thing or a placebo effect, but I was so impressed with the RG565 that I bought an RG550DX today (bound neck one). It plays great but the pickups feel like they are lower output and more bland... and physically they look to be around the same distance from the strings so I'm not sure why. No big deal, they still sound great I'm just surprised someone else had the same observations.
Whats the name of the store and who is this rob person? The one I bought from was spotlight music.

They didn't send me any offer. I was watching the item and I saw it dropped to $850. I asked of there is anything wrong for them to discount the price and they said they were doing a sale on all items

Somehow the bridge pickups even sounds better than the evolution I have on the rg550

It may be the guitar that makes those pickups sound better than in the rg550

About them not making much on them lol theyre "authorized ibanez reseller" im sure they got this guitar for probably $700
 

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Subtract ebay's 6% and shipping to you, and the cost of any bubble wrap if he used any but I doubt he would at that price point. What's left?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Subtract ebay's 6% and shipping to you, and the cost of any bubble wrap if he used any but I doubt he would at that price point. What's left?
They're still making a profit. You probably get those 1k Genesis for $650-700 wholesale and that's why you can afford to sell them $925 cash and with a setup that include all the stuff that you do on setups which probably doesn't include fret end work on maple but is still plenty of stuff that you do on them

A simple setup alone can run $60-90. This means you have taken the labor cost of a more extensive setup into the price that you offer.

If you sell a Genesis for $925 and you subtract a $75 setup cost, this results in $850 and with free shipping that price is reduced maybe $800

This means that you either got the guitar for at least $700 and despite offering free shipping and average $75 extensive setup, you still make a profit that is good enough for the business to be good

That's probably the same case for this ebay seller who shows as "ibanez authorized reseller" and they probably got the guitar for $700 wholesale as well. Since they're not doing a more extensive setup as you do. They can sell the guitar for $850 and even with shipping, bubble wrap and a basic setup, 6% ebay fee, etc they still make a profit.

There is no way you or this seller get these guitars at retail price. There would be no profit.

You'd have to get them for around $700
 

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$850 - time paid to have it checked in and inspected - 6% sale commission to ebay - time paid for a standard adjustment - time paid to have it packed and do the paperwork - [guess] $40 shipping + interest paid on floor plan. Net? $50? If you want to call that profit on an $850 sale you're not in this business or any other. There is no money in these cheap guitars which is why only warehouses can sell them at that. Nobody ever looks at it or touches it coming in or out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
$850 - time paid to have it checked in and inspected - 6% sale commission to ebay - time paid for a standard adjustment - time paid to have it packed and do the paperwork - [guess] $40 shipping + interest paid on floor plan. Net? $50? If you want to call that profit on an $850 sale you're not in this business or any other. There is no money in these cheap guitars which is why only warehouses can sell them at that. Nobody ever looks at it or touches it coming in or out.
The retail price for these is $1000, but that's not the price you and every business that sells them, got them for. In a way, you, musicianfriends, sweetwater, guitar center, etc, etc are middlemen, like car dealers. We can't buy directly from Toyota or Nissan, just like you we can't buy directly from Ibanez. How do car dealers make a profit with all these discounts they seem to give you?

They bought these cars from the manufacturers at a fraction of the price, similarly, instrument dealers bought these guitars from the guitar manufacturers at a fraction of the price.

You sell most of your guitars at a lower price point than the big guitar stores and with an extensive setup included, which takes time to do and we all know time is money and free shipping? How can this possible? The only way it can be possible is if you bought these guitars at a much lower price point, so even with the labor and time of doing a setup, packaging, shipping, you're still making a decent profit, otherwise, how is a business like this sustainable?

The difference is that the bigger guitar stores are greedier, but they are probably getting these guitars for the same price as you do, but they're charging the full retail price as they have employees, advertisement, warehouses, overhead, etc. Even if they give those occasional 15% discounts, with the amount of gear they sell, it pays off.

In your situation, you are a one or two-man operation, your focus is on building a word of mouth family of people who trust you, so you are able to charge a bit less than the big stores in exchange for that good reputation that will come and spread among the interwebs, of someone who will look out for your instrument, a "friend" rather than a cold buy and ship transaction. A more personalized experience so to speak.

So even though you're charging less than the big stores and doing more than them (full setup), since you're a one-man operation, you don't need to charge the full retail price like the big stores do, as they have employees and overhead to pay. You could charge the full $1000 Genesis price for example, but then the appeal of buying from you is reduced, even if a setup is included.

By offering both, a lower price point and an included bonus, a setup, the consumer receives more bang for their buck, at least in their mind.

Its up to the consumer to decide if is worth paying the full retail big store price or the Ibanez rules lowered price point or wait for a sale and get the instrument, untouched for a lower price than the first two options.

Some people just want to click add to cart, pay, and receive the item in a few days rather than sending an email, even if that means paying full retail price, a lot of people don't care about saving money, they'd rather have convenience and ease of use. Most people buy their instruments through the big stores. Sweetwater being the most popular one.

Other people are cheap or better said "frugal", and just wait for a big sale or buy used, even if it doesn't come with a setup or has imperfections, they're looking for the lowest price possible they can get, even if the guitar doesn't come with a full setup that checked every corner of the guitar, most of these people are not professional and just playing at home, so they don't really care, those $100 they probably saved, could be used towards more gear, another guitar, an amp, etc

I got my rg550 $650 used with a paint chip on the back, I don't care, not a professional just play at home, no band, nothing. This time I wanted to buy something new and nicer, but since I'm cheap I looked for the cheapest price I could get $850 and again, just a home player, no need to spend more money in my case. I'm not rich to spending thousands of dollars on guitars, especially when I won't making any money off them.
 

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What does any of that have to do with making $50 on an $850 sale and calling that a "profit"? And I sure don't consider after the work they cost me what I make is a "profit" either. Buy a PIA or a J Custom so I can make a "profit" please......

Bigger guitar stores aren't greedier, they give away stuff with constant 15 and 20% off coupons, which are not supposed to include alot of manufacturers but, they always do. There's no competing with them so I don't even try. And Sweetwater is the one responsible for all guitar store to include free shipping, they pioneered that, as they pay the lowest in shipping than the rest of us.
 

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Sorry for reviving this one but I've been AWOL lately and missed these:

Whats the name of the store and who is this rob person? The one I bought from was spotlight music.

They didn't send me any offer. I was watching the item and I saw it dropped to $850. I asked of there is anything wrong for them to discount the price and they said they were doing a sale on all items

Somehow the bridge pickups even sounds better than the evolution I have on the rg550

It may be the guitar that makes those pickups sound better than in the rg550

About them not making much on them lol theyre "authorized ibanez reseller" im sure they got this guitar for probably $700
Ah okay. I had both the green and orange ones in my ebay watch list. Ebay lets you send out "offers" to people watching your listing and that's how I got it - also from Spotlight Music.

I don't know who Rob is either? I didn't really communicate with the store. I paid for it, they shipped it, guitar was good, left positive feedback that's it haha.

I've known Rob forever, and I know it would have been adjusted well, but that's it. Every 565 nut is .1mm too high both sides, none of the arm holders have been tight, at least none of the holder springs have been binding and oddly the grip is weak on the bar. The intonation wasn't set, the studs weren't lubed, I doubt regular maintenance was done, tuners loose, neck screws, nut screws, and then radiusing the bridge. And every one I sold paid for the fret end finishing, obviously smarter clients. But he must have ordered deep to be cutting deals like that, he'll blow stuff out to make room for the next batch he buys deep in. And at $850 he didn't make beans on it. 8O
And sorry to pile on, but you guys must've lost your minds. Musical equipment - and honestly MOST retail products - the resellers usually mark up almost double, sometimes more. Many years ago I was a purchasing agent for retail car parts (intakes, exhausts, turbo kits etc) and you would be appalled at the profit margins on this stuff. From my discussions with friends in music stores, it's the same way. Now I know there are other cost factors, like shipping, inspection and setup time, paying employees if you have a physical store, utilities, tools, bills, a cushion for damaged returns, etc. etc. etc.

But to say selling a guitar normally priced at $999 for $850 is barely profitable is totally wrong. Ibanez dealer pricing I'm sure is a closely kept secret but I wouldn't be surprised to hear these Genesis guitars run in the $400-500 range to purchase, even less if you are willing to buy 20 or 50 (like musicians friend and other big retailers do).
 

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And sorry to pile on, but you guys must've lost your minds. Musical equipment - and honestly MOST retail products - the resellers usually mark up almost double, sometimes more. Many years ago I was a purchasing agent for retail car parts (intakes, exhausts, turbo kits etc) and you would be appalled at the profit margins on this stuff. From my discussions with friends in music stores, it's the same way. Now I know there are other cost factors, like shipping, inspection and setup time, paying employees if you have a physical store, utilities, tools, bills, a cushion for damaged returns, etc. etc. etc.

But to say selling a guitar normally priced at $999 for $850 is barely profitable is totally wrong. Ibanez dealer pricing I'm sure is a closely kept secret but I wouldn't be surprised to hear these Genesis guitars run in the $400-500 range to purchase, even less if you are willing to buy 20 or 50 (like musicians friend and other big retailers do).
You're obviously not in the musical instrument business. It's not a closely held secret what cost is, but you're so far off you're in another galaxy. There are no discounts on Japanese guitars like there are with Indo or Chinese crap. And quantity makes no difference, I pay the same price as Sweetwater or GC, what they get is cross promotional deals and perks indi's can never touch. Rob made $50 after expenses if he was lucky. If you call that making money then we have very different ideas of what profit is..
 

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Wait... why would Japanese made guitars be dealer priced any different than any other manufacturing region? I don't see how cheaper guitars - like Indo and Chinese are marked up double, and expensive guitars, like Fenders, Gibsons, PRS, are also marked up double, but that's not true for Japanese guitars? That doesn't sound logical.

Same thing about quantity... every retail industry I can think of offers quantity discounts and perks for large volume buyers. There is no way that a low volume seller is paying the same amount per guitar that big retailers are paying. Maybe an Ibanez rep would tell you that, but I doubt it is true. If we had access to the accounting info for GC or Sweetwater, or Ibanez distributors, that's the only way to know for sure and that is absolutely a closely held secret. Sure, it's possible Ibanez might say to the GC purchasing agent "we'll discount those 50 japanese RG's, but you also have to buy 50 indo RG's too" but the same logic could be applied to *most* smaller retailers too. Any mom and pop sized music store I've been too that has a nice Japanese Ibby has just as many lower-end models on the wall too, they do the same thing (i.e. buy 2 Japanese RG's at a discount, but you also have to buy 2 indo RG's) because those are the requirements of any official dealer. I personally have around 15 Ibanezes, and other guitars - if minimum purchasing rules weren't enforced what would stop people like me from applying to be a dealer and just buying a bunch of stuff at cost for myself? What I'm saying is the discount would be based on bulk quantity purchased. Mom and pop buying 4 guitars is going to pay more than GC buying 100, and it'd be hard to convince me otherwise. That's also why I'm much more likely to buy a guitar from a smaller retailer and I'm not too concerned with a huge discount because I understand they have less wiggle room.

Of course I would not say making $50 after expenses to be "making money" and I'd go so far as to say that's not even close to fair at all.

But if it's not such a closely held secret, why don't you share your dealer price list so we can see how much you are paying for any of the new guitars on your site?

That's not a real question, and I don't expect you to share it, you'd be shooting your own business in the foot by doing that. I trade in vintage gear and I'd never share what I paid for things with my audience because it would weaken my bargaining position substantially, and especially with used gear, you might get a few customers who say "well, I understand you have to make a living, here's a fair price" but the vast majority of people are lowballers and tire kickers who think they should get the item at cost and close to it, and I should just be happy to break even. (some people have even messaged me implying they'd be doing me a favor to take something off my hands at a loss, if you can believe that)

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One separate thing I wanted to mention, since I didn't realize who you were until just now. I love your site, and I appreciate the catalog scans you have up. I've been going to your site for years now, at first to lust after guitars I couldn't afford and now to vet vintage models I've collected against the catalog pages (coupled with the wiki). So thanks for that - and sorry if my posts seem combative. That's not my intention and if anything I have a lot of respect for you.
 
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